That's how these things (politics) work. Point to the examples that support your claim and ignore all the ones that don't.
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- Thread starter Blizniak
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Or that journos just don't see the bigger picture. I mean even Shrier is on Epic's side...
They didn't make the product for us.
They made a product for money and ultimately for themselves.
I think that's an important differentiation and something to keep in mind in our capitalist world.
Bread isn't being made to feed, it's made to earn money. And so it is being made cheap, unhealthy with sugar, artificial flavours and the magic of chemistry. Because the goal isn't too make somebody healthy, the goal is to make as much money as possible.
Car manufacturers are cheating, global warming is being dismissed, nestle thinks water isn't a human right, Bayer is the biggest and most shitty pharmaceutical company ever that willingly killed people for profit. The list is infinite.
There is not one single company taking us seriously or caring about us. Consume, consume more, make dept and die. Also shut up and swallow lies.
No idea why people think the game industry is different. Buy and if you don't buy, you are the enemy.
What's surprising to me is how many people are defending companies. They are all shit.
For gaming journalism. I guess it never managed to grow up and become serious. The ties between journalists and Devs/pubs were there from the beginning and grew over time. It's like a circle of friends reporting on each other. Nobody wants to be to harsh, after all you grew up together.
The good thing is that these developers and journalists are ultimately powerless. They can't silence people and they can't force people to spend money if they don't want to. The only thing they can do is pat each other on the back. They have zero power over us.
It is another piece of evidence that most of the gaming media exist as marketing branches of the gaming industry and they will take the corporate side when issues like this happen.
I have told this before and i will say it again here, all those media people and some developers that are engaged in public discourse tell us to understand them and show support and express sympathy because they are making the business decisions they do. Like we are not hard working people that give a portion of our earnings to fund our hobby they deal with us like we are all basement dwelling manchildren.
They care not to examine the opposing argument but they stretch as far as they can to "own" their opponents.
All i can say is that if they really want me (or i imagine people that think like me) to understand them and sympathize (something that already happens on many occasions) they need to start understanding my concerns first and show me they really do.
Because i am against hot takes from some journalists/media people it does not mean i hate those people, it means what it does: that i disagree with their take with arguments.
Because i do not like lootboxes and most of the forms of MTX does not mean i want everything for my self nor that i do not care about the devs making a buck, it means what it does: these business practices are a threat to vulnerable people and more often than not the game was built around them.
Because i do not like Sweeney and Epic's methods of "competing" and communicating doesn't mean that i do not want another videogame store to exist, I have no issue with EGS being there and doing business as long as they do not do exclusivity stints like Metro, Phoenix Point, Shenmue 3 and the like. I can understand if they fund a game dev to make additional content and lock it behind their store but i will never agree on any deal like the ones mentioned.
Also, it is a core principle of me not giving money to arseholes and as such Sweeney do not get any. And if there is a question if he is indeed one, just look in his tweeter history.
However this protest has it's low points with a few idiots making threats to EGS defenders, devs and media people that helps the receivers of those stupid acts generalize, hand waive the real concerns we have against the issues caused by Epic practices and paint us all as Gamergaters, "entitled morons" and the such.
And this just proves what i am saying here: They do not understand us not because they can't but because they do not care. We have told them our arguments, debunked theirs and still, they are dismissing our concerns without any shame.
They are the problem and they are so self-centered, entertained by the notion that like the earth revolves around themselves to have some time to give some serious thinking about the peasant's concerns.
I have told this before and i will say it again here, all those media people and some developers that are engaged in public discourse tell us to understand them and show support and express sympathy because they are making the business decisions they do. Like we are not hard working people that give a portion of our earnings to fund our hobby they deal with us like we are all basement dwelling manchildren.
They care not to examine the opposing argument but they stretch as far as they can to "own" their opponents.
All i can say is that if they really want me (or i imagine people that think like me) to understand them and sympathize (something that already happens on many occasions) they need to start understanding my concerns first and show me they really do.
Because i am against hot takes from some journalists/media people it does not mean i hate those people, it means what it does: that i disagree with their take with arguments.
Because i do not like lootboxes and most of the forms of MTX does not mean i want everything for my self nor that i do not care about the devs making a buck, it means what it does: these business practices are a threat to vulnerable people and more often than not the game was built around them.
Because i do not like Sweeney and Epic's methods of "competing" and communicating doesn't mean that i do not want another videogame store to exist, I have no issue with EGS being there and doing business as long as they do not do exclusivity stints like Metro, Phoenix Point, Shenmue 3 and the like. I can understand if they fund a game dev to make additional content and lock it behind their store but i will never agree on any deal like the ones mentioned.
Also, it is a core principle of me not giving money to arseholes and as such Sweeney do not get any. And if there is a question if he is indeed one, just look in his tweeter history.
However this protest has it's low points with a few idiots making threats to EGS defenders, devs and media people that helps the receivers of those stupid acts generalize, hand waive the real concerns we have against the issues caused by Epic practices and paint us all as Gamergaters, "entitled morons" and the such.
And this just proves what i am saying here: They do not understand us not because they can't but because they do not care. We have told them our arguments, debunked theirs and still, they are dismissing our concerns without any shame.
They are the problem and they are so self-centered, entertained by the notion that like the earth revolves around themselves to have some time to give some serious thinking about the peasant's concerns.
There are some companies who care more for the community and their game then for the short-term profit. Companies who understand that THEY make mistakes, that THEY delivered an inferior or buggy product and that you sometimes have to invest more time and money into fixing your game even if 90% of your projected customer base already bought the game.
because you invest into your companies future
And some devs/companies just... shut up, they don't interact with the world at large. They don't participate on Twitter, Reddit, or Discord to discuss or shout their world-views. They just use it for bug-fixing, news, announcements, patch-releases, etc. from their game.
And I appreciate those silent Devs more and more.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, Twitter is the fucking toilet of the internet. You can't have discussions on there, it's meant for snarky one liners, or to pat each other on the back. I've always disliked it and will continue to do so. Just walk away from it and never look back, your soul will appreciate it.
I did write a long-ass rant about not doing politics or how developers should not express their worldviews (I generally disagree, and that individuals and companies should continue to talk politics and issues), but it was too rambly so I'll just say this:
We need to restore the transactional relationship between customer and developer. We're not patrons of the arts, we're buying a product. But those products will be made by people with political views, and those views will manifest themselves in the games. It's unavoidable.
But don't let yourself be guilted into supporting the nice guy indies because they're just hustling for your dollar, and some of them will take it so far that they will infuse their public persona with faux-progressive identity politics and then insert their product into the mix so that (often marginalised and impressionable) people blindly support them. And it's usually the ones who lean on their faux-progressive public personas or nostalgia over their previous works the hardest who wind up acting like the biggest cunts the second they no longer need your money.
I've been hoodwinked by it more than once, so have most of you guys. They won't stop doing it so you need to show some scruples where they aren't willing to. Just remember you're buying a product and don't do anything to "support" anyone. Love the art, not the artist.
We need to restore the transactional relationship between customer and developer. We're not patrons of the arts, we're buying a product. But those products will be made by people with political views, and those views will manifest themselves in the games. It's unavoidable.
But don't let yourself be guilted into supporting the nice guy indies because they're just hustling for your dollar, and some of them will take it so far that they will infuse their public persona with faux-progressive identity politics and then insert their product into the mix so that (often marginalised and impressionable) people blindly support them. And it's usually the ones who lean on their faux-progressive public personas or nostalgia over their previous works the hardest who wind up acting like the biggest cunts the second they no longer need your money.
I've been hoodwinked by it more than once, so have most of you guys. They won't stop doing it so you need to show some scruples where they aren't willing to. Just remember you're buying a product and don't do anything to "support" anyone. Love the art, not the artist.
Now if only Tim finds a way to not need customers the hustle will be complete!
Sure there is an exception to every rule and non profit organizations exist as well.
But those are minorities and we are talking about game companies here and not people drilling Wells and supplying medical help to people who can't afford any.
Sure most people aren't terrible human beings, but their prime motivation is to bring food and safety to their families. Which is hard when running your own, small and independent business. Your next product could be the end. Everybody understands that and why epics money is so welcome.
But that's my point, even if a company isn't actively trying to destroy something they are here for the money and should not be treated as friends, should not be worshipped or praised for releasing a product (aka selling you stuff to earn money). They are doing business and if their business practices aren't bad than I'm more willing to buy their products.
It's that simple for me.
Those non profit organizations deserve our love and respect. And not a dev studio making a product to be able to buy stuff. Even if they are quite and not bad people.
Because this description fits all of us. We all work, provide a service or product. We all want to get paid and most of us aren't evil. I see no difference between an engineer, a researcher, a doctor, a developer, the nice person at my gas station or the people taking care of the trash my family is producing. They are all valuable, all provide something important, all do it for money. Being a game developer isn't special or deserves extra love and attention.
And companies should be treated even more neutral.
This is where I'm at with EGS exclusives as well. If the devs are honest and haven't screwed over their customers in the process of accepting the deal(crowdfunding, preorders) then I will most likely buy their game when the exclusivity period has lapsed.
The Ooblets folks will never see a dime from me though. It's too bad they are being harassed, but they brought it on themselves by preemptively insulting anyone who doesn't want to buy into EGS. I won't send them nasty e-mails or tweets or anything like that, but I don't feel I am being toxic by saying they are assholes... just like I would say anyone who behaves as they have is an asshole.
Ooblets dev received thousands of "hateful, threatening messages" over Epic exclusivity
Glumberland has received "thousands if not tens of thousands" of threats as a result of signing an exclusivity deal wit…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Classic: not even trying to understand the reasons why they got thousands of hateful, threatening messages, nor trying to find out if by any chance Glumberland did anything to add fuel to the fire.Ooblets dev received thousands of "hateful, threatening messages" over Epic exclusivity
Glumberland has received "thousands if not tens of thousands" of threats as a result of signing an exclusivity deal wit…
Not a single explanation of why the blog post was controversial. Not a single mention of what the devs have been saying on social media. No context at all for anything that happened after the EGSclusivity announcement (for the record, harassment is terrible and should never happen to anyone; people doing it are pieces of shit and should stop right now). This article is pure gold.Ooblets dev received thousands of "hateful, threatening messages" over Epic exclusivity
Glumberland has received "thousands if not tens of thousands" of threats as a result of signing an exclusivity deal wit…
I really want to stop having flashbacks of 2014. This is dangerous and nauseating. People shouldn't be getting harassed and the discussion shouldn't loose focus like this.
That's the whole point of that, for the discussion to lose focus (I mean, did they ever at all put it in focus?!) by playing the victim card. Anything to avoid debate.
They literally caused it though. They literally openly mocked people in their announcement.
Maybe stop mocking people if you are already "crying for two days"
It's all so one sided and dumb with these people. Like if everyone was like them Valve wouldn't be so quietly trucking along with business as usual but have Gabe make all kinds of butthurt tweets about how he's been the target of vile remarks like he's a cancer to the industry and gamers or something all very clearly instigated by Sweeney's own attitude and statements towards his so called competition. But then that'd be a win for Tim, I'm glad they haven't.
Just today after people discussed Sweeney's position on cancelling Unreal Tournament it was somehow made all about Gabe/Steam cos acknowledgement is apparently more than the rich fucks ever did for Half-Life 3 (was that ever even announced, it seems people are conflating HL2 Episode 3 with an actual HL3)?
Just today after people discussed Sweeney's position on cancelling Unreal Tournament it was somehow made all about Gabe/Steam cos acknowledgement is apparently more than the rich fucks ever did for Half-Life 3 (was that ever even announced, it seems people are conflating HL2 Episode 3 with an actual HL3)?
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"I didn't know that being an asshole to people would result in people being mean to me! Why did I deserve this?"
It's terrible that they're getting threatened and harassed, but maybe they should reflect on their behavior and try not to be a massive cunt next time?
It's terrible that they're getting threatened and harassed, but maybe they should reflect on their behavior and try not to be a massive cunt next time?
If a thread based on this article appears over at Era I would strongly advise avoiding it like the plague. It's a guaranteed shitshow and there will be no way to represent the normal anti-EGS side without being banned for victim blaming, Heed my warning and steer well clear.
Somebody should write an article how Ooblet represents the entire gaming industry. How they speak for every Dev studio from EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Microsoft and Sony.
What? They don't? Than how are a couple of immature people able to represent the rest of us?
I don't remember hiring them.
What? They don't? Than how are a couple of immature people able to represent the rest of us?
I don't remember hiring them.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. They should have known before stoking the fire how toxic gamers can be.
It was as bad as you'd expect.
Too late. It made it two pages before getting locked.
It was as bad as you'd expect.
Of course nothing justifies being harassed.
But I don't understand why people want to play the troll game and then complain when it blows on their faces.
But I don't understand why people want to play the troll game and then complain when it blows on their faces.
It's not just a couple though. Because someone posting gore/porn on discord is basically equal to someone saying "meh, you suck" over it and moving on or someone actually debating their statements, which they proceed to mock/troll, as they're all against them, hence the crazy padded number mentioned there. Hell, you're already added to the jerk list even if you haven't said your thoughts on the topic yet, if when you do you don't approve of them you're all the same.
The idea that the hate mob appeared solely because Ooblets went EGS exclusive is laughable. The developers could've just made the announcement and it would've blown over with no issue(see other indie devs of similar stature like those working on Afterparty, Untitled Goose Game, etc). Would there have been some angry/disappointed folks? Of course. But Glumberland were the ones who decided to stoke a reaction, with a condescending, dismissive announcement that went after 'Gamers™' and then followed it up with more bluster on Discord, Twitter, Reddit, etc...Ooblets dev received thousands of "hateful, threatening messages" over Epic exclusivity
Glumberland has received "thousands if not tens of thousands" of threats as a result of signing an exclusivity deal wit…
The hate mob is by no means justified but it should not be unexpected. And it could've EASILY been avoided simply by not being dicks in the first place.
I mean, it's GameIndustry.biz which is Eurogamers' Industry site where they have articles and conferences on monetization so you can hardly expect fair and balanced reporting there in any way, shape or form. It's an industry site not a consumer one and always has been.
They would always take the side of the industry.
I don't support harrassing devs for business decisions, even epic exclusive ones, but with them writing that blog the way they did and them reposting a offensive 4chan meme, I can't say I'm surprised about it happening.
The thread was a graveyard.
Sheesh, that thread is question my Era membership again.
I mean harrasment is bad and my whole argument yesterday was that angry gamers are the worst, but there are some legitimate posts and the users still got banned.
A popular twitter user who makes “comedy gaming tweets”. Last time he talked about epic he posted one of Ge0Force’s resetera posts without censoring his name.
Oh, I remember that. Looking by the tweet you posted he also has a wonderful community of knowledgeable followers.
Yup. This is the issue with today's Era. No nuance, no bigger picture. You point out that there is a history and suddenly you are victim-blaming.
Personally, I would have banned the people who inappropriately compared the ooblets Situation with sexual harassment on the street because of the clothes she wears. THAT downplays sexual harassment on the street.
I said it yesterday, someone will point to some fuckwits and suddenly ANY criticism is harassment. Half of the criticizers changes their stance and the other half is banned or shuts up.
I don't care about it, but I still am making a statement about it. You better do not dare to disagree, just swallow my opinion!
Normally comedians are rather clever people, this fellow doesn't seem to be. But I assume at this point he is just steering the shit, asking to be insulted to play the victim card.
Meanwhile GabeN from 4 years ago:
Do not bite to the uninformed.
Remember that they are the ones that do not care to understand that is why they come up like stupid in Tweets and postings. And, ofcourse, they will have the same uninformed idiots that agree and follow them.
Don't drop your level to these idiots.
Remember that they are the ones that do not care to understand that is why they come up like stupid in Tweets and postings. And, ofcourse, they will have the same uninformed idiots that agree and follow them.
Don't drop your level to these idiots.
Really unhappy that poorly adjusted people who happen to play video games harassed the devs so much. Yes they lit the fire but there but the response was no proportional.
sometimes its good to be angry. the "angry gamer manbabies are the worst toxic gamergaters" meme has to die.
wrong
Just consume, man. Shut your brain. Be a yes man. Its only videogames.
Sending threats isn't cool, even if the official discord and some sub reddits seemed like mostly civil disagreements, we all know that isn't the only way people threaten and show displeasure.
I'm cautious about Epic because I'm old enough to remember how Google was our messiah from the evil Microsoft. And we embraced it without question. And now look where we are, they own a platform where Nazis can spread their shit without anyone doing anything.
Don't be evil, huh.
Don't be evil, huh.
no, first, i never got the proof i asked for the other day. everyone can say that they got harassed but i wont take the word from some fuckwits like the ooblets devs and their stans.
second, who says what response is proportional? sure, posting porn and gore is not cool, if it happened. calling them fuckwits, what they are, is cool in my book.
will watch the vid later tonight when i have time.
Sadly, the pushback against EGS will be noticieable until console players are inconvinienced by it. That's what the industry is about.
Just look at The 'Game' Awards. Might as well call it The Console Awards.
In general, nobody gives a shit about PC gaming unless it is to complain about how a loli neko hentai VN slipped though the filters and appeared in someone's feed and writes an article about how Steam is 'plagued' by stuff like that.
Just look at The 'Game' Awards. Might as well call it The Console Awards.
In general, nobody gives a shit about PC gaming unless it is to complain about how a loli neko hentai VN slipped though the filters and appeared in someone's feed and writes an article about how Steam is 'plagued' by stuff like that.
it happened ... in their discord .... i've seen like 10 people (people i trust) saying it happened .... so it happened
besides - we all know how certain people can behave when stuff like that happens, so i have ZERO doubt it happened, and i don't need to see proof
what should've happened after that announcement was just people saying "well i'm not gonna buy your game then, if you feel this way" and moving on AT MOST ... not sending them porn, gore and death threats
Exactly. Proportional response. They don't owe us a game until we give them money specifically for a copy/if you backed on kickstarter and the game actually releases. We owe them not to steal the game. That's it. Proportional response is to cancel preorder, cancel patreon, not purchase game in the future. Not to harass for days.
well, i don't know them, i don't trust them, it's not hard to take a screencap. so as long i haven't seen it, it didn't happen. and no, what you proposed should have happened isn't enough of an reaction to their insults. for all i know and how i read their posts on discord and twitter they are the type of people that can dish out but at the first sign of resistance they are "harassed" by the toxic gamers. fuck them, fuckwits.
letting them now they are arrogant lying insulting assholes is a proportional response.