Community MetaSteam | April 2019 - "Objection!" the One Finger Fatality

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Knurek

OG old coot
Oct 16, 2018
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What's his I keep hearing about another Witcher 3 expandalone? Supposedly will let you play as Lambert or Eskel...
 

Alexandros

MetaMember
Nov 4, 2018
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Thank you Hektor and Alexandros (and everyone else who will contribute) taking the time to write this detailed FAQ.
I find 'Devs will get more money' argument kinda strange. Even if we ignore the fact that most devs won't see a cent of Epic's money, ultimately, the bottom line that I care about the most is mine. Like, it's good that they'll get more money, but I won't advocate for it if it leads to more expensive games for me, and so far, it has done exactly that. I don't think competition is inherently good for us consumers, it's only good if it benefits us. And in Epic's case, it's making the consumers' experience actively worse, both by limiting functionality and making games more expensive.
Just to be clear, that is all Hektor's work. I had a similar idea and had created a list of questions to answer but Hektor beat me to it.
 

Hektor

Autobahnraser
Nov 1, 2018
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Just to be clear, that is all Hektor's work. I had a similar idea and had created a list of questions to answer but Hektor beat me to it.
I only posted this now because you said you wanted to do such a thing and didn't wanted either of us to end up wasting work.

For all intends and purposes we can work together on this!
 

Ge0force

Excluding exclusives
Jan 12, 2019
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Belgium
I still think you are getting extremely worked up about Epic, to a point of being "nervous" and upset, for something as trivial as a video games store, and a handful of games. A store run by a bully of a company, but still just that, a store.
You're right of course. But still, it's sad that we aren't able to be enthusiastic about upcoming or announced games anymore, because there's a huge chance that Epic will moneyhat them. No doubt there will be plenty of great games left on Steam, but still, it's hard for me as well.

The media defending Epic's shitty moves all the time doesn't make it any easier. In fact I have stopped visiting sites like pc gamer and RPS because of it. I wish we had an EGS-free news feed for pc gaming...
 

derExperte

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Dec 9, 2018
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I'm not quite ready to throw GameInformer under the bus because their video content is great and alternatives are slim. But definitely on my watchlist now.



Also Ultimate Epic Battle Simulator is having a sale to counter the release of Totally Accurate Battle Simulator. Almost bit but user reviews aren't nice at all.
 
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Nabs

Hyper˗Toxic Pro˗Consumer
Oct 23, 2018
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So, uh, how's Hades doing? I swear, that game might as well be in a closed beta.

Also, if Disco Elysium becomes an exclusive, I know who to blame.
 

prudis

anime occult member
Sep 19, 2018
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The Kingdom of Beer and Porn
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Ex-User (307)

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I admire your passion for doing this FAQ, but I'm not sure it will matter: the people that keep throwing around stupid arguments about the EGS and Steam aren't really interested in being educated, and most aren't even PC gamers, and have no interest in the platform.

I still think you are getting extremely worked up about Epic, to a point of being "nervous" and upset, for something as trivial as a video games store, and a handful of games. A store run by a bully of a company, but still just that, a store.
Just speaking for myself, I'm way past the point of getting genuinely upset about the games themselves becoming exclusive. It's annoying, I don't like it, but I'm not going to let it ruin my day or something. I've got more than enough games in my backlog and on the horizon.

Personally, the only thing I find upsetting at this point is the disinformation campaign by various peoples for Epic and against Steam.
  • Steam fosters a "toxically" pro-consumer environment.
  • Key resellers don't give devs money.
  • Steam fanboys are the toxic alt-right.
  • Steam fanboys are worse than console fanboys.
  • Epic is going to change the market for the little guy indie devs.
  • Steam doesn't have any of the big 2018 releases.
  • "Lazy devs" rhetoric, hilariously directed towards Valve's software engineers.
  • Devs supporting "customer choice" is toxic and a "shit argument."
  • Steam has made no significant updates to their client or dev support in the past years.
  • Regional pricing for purchasing parity is actually a "forced discount."
And so on. That nonsense upsets me far more than Borderlands 3 becoming an exclusive.
 

prudis

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apparently its quite good


+ also another v1.0 launch
 

Amzin

No one beats me 17 times in a row!
Dec 5, 2018
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Here is what I have thus far:

Obviously still some work to do.

I started it as a simple way to address common arguments being made without having to repeat yourself over and over again.

If anyone got some input, just post it.
Especially further argument that are made that I might have forgotten about
I think drawing attention to the real issues with using / purchasing on the store for people outside the English speaking countries is important. Countries that straight up can't use EGS, and those that have either no regional pricing (and thus can't afford it because usually conversion is insane) or have extra charges passed on to the customer because EGS won't eat it.

I think you already have an upcoming note about this, but highlighting the fact that the EGS is not actually competing with Steam (or GOG, etc.) because the only response Valve could have to paying publishers millions of dollars is to pay publishers slightly more millions of dollars. If a game releases on Steam and EGS at the same time, it is competition. This is similar to how no one has ever claimed battle.net was competing with Steam, because obviously it isn't. GoG is the only store I would say is actually competing right now. Origin/uPlay/battle.net/EGS are all doing their own thing, and actually all are guilty of many of the problems of EGS to some extent or another, but the difference is Epic is using money to force those problems onto fans.

Maybe try to make it sound less emotional than I currently am :p

I admire your passion for doing this FAQ, but I'm not sure it will matter: the people that keep throwing around stupid arguments about the EGS and Steam aren't really interested in being educated, and most aren't even PC gamers, and have no interest in the platform.

I still think you are getting extremely worked up about Epic, to a point of being "nervous" and upset, for something as trivial as a video games store, and a handful of games. A store run by a bully of a company, but still just that, a store.

Don't like what they are doing? Don't support them. Don't support the games in question (not even when they launch elsewhere in a year; either don't buy them, or at least wait for them to be bundled, or very heavily discounted). Don't support the developers and publishers who agreed to this. Vote with your wallets. That's the only thing these companies listen to: money.
You don't need to get worked up about it, all you achieve is getting yourselves upset, and you are just giving Epic free publicity, and lots of clicks to all these websites that are engaging on this sad campaign.
Would people have that same attitude of it being trivial if it was a bookstore, or music store, or art supplies, or anything that wasn't games? Epic is causing legitimate harm to the gaming hobby and industry, people were rightly upset when EA kept pushing down the slippery slope and there's no reason not to be angry at Epic for using their sheer amount of money to try and force people into a closed ecosystem where Epic is not actually providing better anything for anyone (maybe better cut for devs, but it seems much of that money may actually be going to publishers if the exclusivity deals are anything to go on).

Even though, strictly speaking, if I really wanted to play Hades or any of the other exclusives I was legitimately really looking forward to (as fans of those developers previous work) I certainly could and not directly face any direct consequence yet, I do also care about all the people that this is negatively impacting, and I care what it means for gaming in the future. The international shittiness of ISPs wasn't built overnight, Amazon didn't start off infested with tons of knockoffs and fake reviews, Facebook... well Facebook always was terrible but not enough people called them out on it, and they got worse anyway.

I've played games for almost 3 decades now, console and PC together most of that time. I could still live without games tomorrow but I'd be as sad as if I was denied books, and way more sad than if I were denied shows or movies. These big companies need to be brought to the spotlight for their abuse of power, because right now we have no other option to fight big companies with only more money as their ultimate goal.
 

derExperte

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Makes you wonder how the games media would've handled MS suddenly starting moneyhatting games into their W10 store.

Also can log in again.


 
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prudis

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<They Are Billions :: Campaign Development (III)>
We’re 100% focused on finishing the campaign so it can be released as soon as possible. If all goes according to plan, that will be June 2019. The gameplay will unquestionably be finished by then, as it’s almost at 75% right now, but other elements like the video cinematic, voices, translations, or other stuff may take us longer than expected.

Therefore, we’ve decided not to add new content to the survival mode until the full game with the campaign is released. Working on the campaign modifies everything in the game, while updating new content for the survival uses a lot the development resources, and we firmly believe that most players prefer to have the campaign sooner than having an updated Survival but with a more delayed Campaign.

Having said that, the exciting news is that with the big launch of the campaign, the survival mode will be updated with two more themes and features like new units and structures. If will be finally the 1.0 version!
The campaign has 50 missions, which total 40-60 hours of play. Obviously the permadeath system won’t apply to the whole campaign. It’d be tragic to have to start again after playing for 40 hours! :)
During the campaign, the permadeath system works as usual. You can exit the game and continue the same mission when you want, but you can’t reload an old game. If you fail the mission you’ll return to the campaign map and decide whether to start the same mission again or start a different one to gain some improvements by developing the research tree.
But be aware that this doesn’t mean that you can repeat the mission over and over again without consequence...

The campaign score, which will be equal to the sum of the scores of all completed missions, will be displayed in the campaign dashboard. Each mission has a maximum score based on the chosen difficulty chosen, and that you will earn when you successfully complete the mission. Watch out because each time you fail a mission, 10% of that score will be permanently deducted until you reach a minimum of 10% of the original score. By doing this, we’ll reward you for finishing each mission with the least possible attempts, and we’ll avoid metagaming situations like, “I start the mission and explore everything and with that information I start the mission again.”
 
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Snakethesniper

Time Traveler
Jan 11, 2019
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If someone wants to sell Sword Art Online in the humble bundle I might buy it for the right price! :D
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
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If I didn't already have 200 hours in the 2 God Eater games, I would be all over that 15$ tier.
As such, I'm interested in Get Even, Memories Retorld and I'm semi-interested in Fatal Bullet. I dislike lots of things about SAO, but morbid curiosity always get the better of me <.<
(And Gun Gale Online Alternative is legit awesome, probably because it was written by a different person).
I've no idea about that game tho.

And then I see it has 50€ worth of DLC and my interest plummets. Welp.
But it also appears those DLC are part of a complete your collection bundle. And realistically speaking I'd probably ignore them anyway.
 
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Deleted member 113

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Would people have that same attitude of it being trivial if it was a bookstore, or music store, or art supplies, or anything that wasn't games?
I would be equally upset, no more, no less.

I'm not trivializing this because it's videogames. I play videogames for close to 40 years now, so it's obviously something I value.

What I'm saying is if a developer/publisher doesn't want my money, I can easy replace my purchase of a game for another. Or another thing related to my hobbies, and free time.
I'm saying: vote with your wallets. Support companies that treat you right, and "punish" companies that are doing things you don't agree with.

I'm not, and no one is, forced to give Epic and these developers/publishers any money. And, they aren't going to be taking away gaming with them. They are taking a few games. And some people are acting like they can't live without playing a game or two, which is nonsense.
For each game that it's exclusive, you have dozens of worthwhile games that aren't. Buy those instead.

I will repeat: I can, and will happily live without playing these exclusives. There are no shortage of other games, and developers, to spend my money on.
Oh, and a ridiculous backlog of thousands of games. :p
 

derExperte

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Dec 9, 2018
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I also won't watch that Avengers thingy while it's exclusive to cinemas. Literally none of my friends give a crap and I'm too lazy to go alone so see ya in a few months. Or a year, took me that long to bother watching the last Star Wars. Should've waited forever. Movies are trash these days*, now where's my American Ninja collection at?

*Incidentally movie review/news sites are too compared to 10-15 years ago, gaming sites are following the same trajectory.
 
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Alextended

Segata's Disciple
Jan 28, 2019
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Funny to see something from PC Gamer to defend Steam.

I'm guessing this end of year equivalent update of that article will just talk about how Steam lost its luster and EGS is the shit now.

This E3's PC Gaming Show will be a shitshow.

Maybe journos are also mad cos Steam abandoned them (well, never really paid them off like they want) like Nintendo as they don't need them for reach.
 
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Ex-User (307)

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+

Good God this Anthem article is exactly what I thought happened.

Over the months, Anthem had begun naturally picking up ideas and mechanics from loot shooters like The Division and Destiny, although even mentioning the word Destiny was taboo at BioWare. (Diablo IIIwas the preferred reference point.) A few people who worked on the game said that trying to make comparisons to Destiny would elicit negative reactions from studio leadership. “We were told quite definitively, ‘This isn’t Destiny,’” said one developer. “But it kind of is. What you’re describing is beginning to go into that realm. They didn’t want to make those correlations, but at the same time, when you’re talking about fire teams, and going off and doing raids together, about gun combat, spells, things like that, well there’s a lot of elements there that correlate, that cross over.”
Because leadership didn’t want to discuss Destiny, that developer added, they found it hard to learn from what Bungie’s loot shooter did well. “We need to be looking at games like Destiny because they’re the market leaders,” the developer said. “They’re the guys who have been doing these things best. We should absolutely be looking at how they’re doing things.” As an example, the developer brought up the unique feel of Destiny’s large variety of guns, something that Anthem seemed to be lacking, in large part because it was being built by a bunch of people who had mostly made RPGs. “We really didn’t have the design skill to be able to do that,” they said. “There just wasn’t the knowledge base to be able to develop that kind of diversity.”
It's the launch of FFXIV all over again. Hubris, stupidity and incompetency from project leads who don't know or want to know what other market leaders are doing.
 

Amzin

No one beats me 17 times in a row!
Dec 5, 2018
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I would be equally upset, no more, no less.

I'm not trivializing this because it's videogames. I play videogames for close to 40 years now, so it's obviously something I value.

What I'm saying is if a developer/publisher doesn't want my money, I can easy replace my purchase of a game for another. Or another thing related to my hobbies, and free time.
I'm saying: vote with your wallets. Support companies that treat you right, and "punish" companies that are doing things you don't agree with.

I'm not, and no one is, forced to give Epic and these developers/publishers any money. And, they aren't going to be taking away gaming with them. They are taking a few games. And some people are acting like they can't live without playing a game or two, which is nonsense.
For each game that it's exclusive, you have dozens of worthwhile games that aren't. Buy those instead.

I will repeat: I can, and will happily live without playing these exclusives. There are no shortage of other games, and developers, to spend my money on.
Oh, and a ridiculous backlog of thousands of games. :p
I mean I agree, I refuse to make an Epic account and I try to dissuade people from making one or giving them any money. And obviously no physical harm will come of not playing a specific exclusive. Yet, to go back to an analogy, if the 5th Harry Potter book suddenly was exclusive when it came out to some new bookstore that wasn't available in parts of the world, and charged many people more for the book compared to previous books, and the bookstore has shitty policies and coffee and no parking and whatever else sucks about bad bookstores, and the reason for this decision was because the book publisher was paid millions by said bookstore, that would have caused riots. The argument "it's just another bookstore, you already have a car just go to that one instead" would be clearly seen as shallow and stupid and missing the bigger picture.

As gamers and customers, we have no rights to specific games of course - they are part of a wide variety of luxuries we have at our disposal. But game companies are literally treating game players as some necessary evil so they can make money, and it needs a stronger backlash than just "don't support them" because so far they've made bank off of doing it because not enough people are looking at the longer term problems or the problems outside of immediate view.

I think one of the biggest problems is, despite my continues attempts at comparisons, there really is no analogy for the PC games market and the stuff going on right now, it's quite unique even though you can draw some concepts from elsewhere.
 

Echoes

"My destiny is to continue fighting"
Oct 31, 2018
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Has anyone tried Below? It's 25% off on Steam, I was so hyped when it released but the reviews are mixed so I don't know what to think of it.
 

AHA-Lambda

MetaMember
Oct 9, 2018
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Uh, this absolutely might just be me, but this site keeps giving me warning popups from MalwareBytes about it blocking website connections due to spyware?
 

BlueOdin

Dec 3, 2018
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I wasn't playing on PC during its "heyday" but how was the situation with Games for Windows Live? They had GTAIV, Batman, Street Fighter and whatever else. I know that they were available on Steam at least at some point since I own a few of them but how was it with store exclusivity? Boxed copies didn't need Steam but were the games also exclusive to the GfWL marketplace?
 

Alextended

Segata's Disciple
Jan 28, 2019
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I don't recall any exclusives, just games that chose to integrate the pretty bad Microsoft social features regardless of where you bought them. Some patched it out since, others are unplayable because of it or need fan patches or separate gfwl executables installed wherever they may still work, not quite sure.

That wasn't its "heyay", it's only been getting better, steadily and surely. Like said, we're no longer envious of Japanese games these days for one, everything goes PC, I don't think anyone expected the likes of Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Dragon Quest, etc to get same-period launches on PC back then. As the norm and in a generally quality manner that is, there were exceptions in the past of course, in the 90s with some SEGA arcade/saturn ports, later with say Metal Gear Solid 2 or Silent Hill 2, or even that botched RE4 first port (though I'm not sure of the timing related to the originals), etc.
 
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