Community MetaSteam | March 2024 - Can we find Moominvalley in the Forbidden West?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Censored

I didn't delete that post!. Get my post back!.
Oct 8, 2021
1,221
4,511
113
well not that many suck when mostly of the recent games are remasters from old gen games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: moemoneyb1

kio

MetaMember
Apr 19, 2019
1,577
5,072
113
A lot of old games suck shit anyway.

Last year I completed GTA Vice City and if it wasn’t thanks to nostalgia and that I know the game by heart, I would have abandoned it 30 minutes in.
Good design is forever, that's why stuff like Tetris or Space Invaders are still mentioned more than 50 years later. If a game is bad now it may be because it was never that good to begin with :shrugblob:

edit: Stuff like Ultima Underworld, Settlers 2, Age of Empires, Planescape, Fallout, Deus Ex, Dungeon Keeper, and so many others, are still as good today as they were back then. All they need are some mods to help them not break apart in modern systems.
If anything older games are better than modern ones simply because they aren't overly reliant on graphical fidelity that inevitably age, gameplay was in the forefront of the design and that barely ages.
 
Last edited:

Parsnip

Riskbreaker
Sep 11, 2018
3,184
7,095
113
Finland


Sale done.

Piczle Lines DX+α is on sale for the first time since summer 2021, I better jump on it now just in case it goes without sale for another 3 years after this. Or longer.
Wasn't really optimistic that would go on sale again when I wishlisted it a year ago.
 

Jav

Question everything, learn nothing
Sep 17, 2019
964
3,129
93
If any of you here is sick enough to play Hearts of Iron 4 (like me) they are giving 3 big dlc for free.

The China (and axis-lite) focused:



The Balkan focused:


And the Allied focused:



And if you don't have it, the base game is on sale right now and you can get the free dlc later.
 

STHX

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2021
1,077
4,084
113
Italy
A lot of old games suck shit anyway.
I think about this specific sentence, or variations, a lot. Old games aged like milk, old games are too obtuse, nostalgia googles are the reason you like old games etc
There was a time where I actually thought this was true. I was left disappointed after playing recent titles of certain series and reading online "SERIES actually was always bad, take off your nostalgia googles" or seeing 4 hours youtube essays titled "why OLD GAME was actually terrible"
Let's look at Tales of Zestiria. A lot has been said about that specific game and I'm not here to expand on it. I played it on Steam, I finished it all, and I wasn't left fully satisfied. This is all I will say about Zestiria. My first Tales of however was Symphonia which I played on the Gamecube. I originally played it when it came out and as an adult I actually forgot most about that game: I did remember I liked it but most details as of why escaped me, with the exception of how I remembered the story was basically a copy of FFX (girl travels the world accompanied by bodyguards so she can save it by sacrificing her life) but with an added twist. After playing Zestiria I read many times about how Tales of as a series was always generic anime shit, nothing special gameplay and story wise and so on, and would you look at that Symphonia is also on Steam. So why not? After all my old memories didn't actually paint the original game as something special. Let's tackle it again and exorcize its ghost once and for all
Not even 2 hours into the game and the protagonist discovers an actual concentration camp where "inferior beings" are tortured and experimented on. People get tortured simply because of their genes and gets turned into the accessories that the party uses to use their magical skills. Also these "spheres" (to keep the FFX copy train going) unless suppressed by special means slowly eat the person away causing it or to mutate or to turn into a literall mindless doll. This specific part is further enhanced later in the story when you meet a future party member whose mind is so far gone she doesn't even realize her father decomposing corpse is laying in the same bed she sleeps in (and when she recovers her mind after the party helps her the first thing she does is, would you look at that, scream like a mad because she actually did realize what was happening). I couldn't even remember a single other JRPGs with similar story beats or scenes, especially not FF and especially not modern Tales. Then I start exploring the dungeons and realize that not only are the dungeons well designed (multiple open corridors and optional treasure chests in every dungeon) but each and every single one has an unique gimmick (in one you can shoot fireballs to hit switches, in another you freeze water to walk on it, or zap electrical machines to activate the, or become small and enter smaller hidden corridors) almost like I'm playing an actual dungeon focused RPG. Then I look at the world, a "dated simple overworld" and realize the worldspace is massive, filled with areas to explore and towns and dungeons everywhere at every turn, and there is a second overworld too! The story is still pretty blatant in the FFX inspiration though
How, how could anyone think it's nostalgia. Symphonia is so much more compared to Zestiria, and modern Tales in general. This specific playthrough completely changed how I looked at older games. And so I continued. I played other older games I remembered liking again, I played those games I never played in my youth too because I was a "console baby" (including Doom, yes I only played Doom in my adulthood). Some of those games I had no nostalgia at all just to hammer the fact it wasn't nostalgia that spoke, and to make sure I treated them fairly I also played their more modern releases
I played Xcom (the modern one) and I loved it. Great game, great progression, and great feel. But what about the older X-Com? I played that too and... it's amazing! Time Units are such a great concept and add so much more strategy compared to the 2 action in a turn system, and the accuracy only influencing how much your shots deviate from the intended path is so much more flexible compared to Xcom's get a bad roll and your soldier just shoots in the sky (in older Xcom you could miss a shot but still hit something else, like an explosive barrel). The only thing that aged bad are the graphics and the fact the game is buggy as shit. The first one is unsolvable, the second issue however is solved thanks to OpenXcom Extended which is permanently on my pc every time I have to change it. Of course I still like modern Xcom's take on it, but I will always prefer X-Com
I played all 5 TR games on my old PS1 and I remember enjoying them, but I fell off the series after that for some reason I don't remember. As an adult I played TR 2013 and I think it's 100% an unsalvageable piece of shit. Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. But you know, older TR games are bullshit hard and have bad controls so I guess my nostalgia googles are acting up again. So I download Tomb1Main (now called TR1X), get the TR collection on Gog and start the first game and... well shit my mind was blown again! It's amazing. The tutorial teaches you everything you need about the controls and the first 4 stages are some of the best initial stages I could remember. Every enemy encounter is perfectly tuned, every new room teaches you something (in case you skipped the tutorial), the puzzles are great and the secrets are all well hidden and most of all worth it. And the stages are also big and pretty well designed. How could anyone say it's nostalgia? Modern Tomb Raider has ultra tiny levels while pretending to be open world, secrets are worth shit and only give you exp, and every "combat arena" is the same human enemies using the same tacticts in the same ways, and the "puzzles" if you can even call them like that are literally a single switch in a single room. It's funny but in the end they are literally an inferior version of classic TR excepot without tank controls. The recent TR I-III remasters simply confirmed all of this for me. Oh and lets not forget the music. Arguably to finish my anti TR 2013 essay I'll even say the very obvious ryona fetish someone on the dev team has makes the modern games worse even on the sexual side. At least in the older games Lara doesn't get brutally tortured by traps or sexually assaulted by every enemy
And well, I talked about it so let's tackle it. There is a lot you can read about "boomer shooters". Maps are big and too complex, too many enemies, key hunting is dumb. So I downloaded GZDoom and played The Ultimate Doom, Doom II and Final Doom with it and... jesus fucking christ it's like I found something that was missing from my life all this time. Complex maps? Key hunting? Shitty enemy encounters? Did the people that wrote these things ever touched these games? Yes Petersen's maps suck and the Casali's really loved Revenants but the game is still mindblowing! The maps are extremely fun to explore, the automap is extremely easy to read, and the enemy encounters are smooth like a dance and I never felt in trouble or lost (and obviously the soundtrack is also good) Hunting for the full 100% also shows how good the actual exploration and the level gimmicks are. Switches that open and close doors, or activate staircases or bridges, crumbling floors, locked keys (and switches). You could probably recreate full Zelda dungeons in the first Doom alone and people think this game aged badly? But hey let's also talk about Doom 2016 and, oh actually that game is amazing too! You see what makes modern Doom good is that it takes inspiration from older Doom because it accepts it's a good game. Modern Doom is a game where you explore big maps, with an easy to read automap, with colored keys, while hunting for switches and more importantly hunt for secrets which net you cool shit like early access to weapons or powerups, all the while you smoothly dance with the demons as your circle and punch/shoot them in the face. Modern Doom and old Doom are both very good titles, and you know what that means?
Nostalgia doesn't exists. A good game from 1993 is still good even 30 years later, and a modern good game will be good in 30 years too. Besides we live in the modern age and no one is forced to play older games on old platforms. Source ports exist, bugfixes exist. You can customize the experience like you want and if you want more mods and custom expansions are everywhere (that's also why I picked X-Com, TR and Doom as examples) I could go on and make more examples (oh trust me I could) but my fingers hurt so let's just finish it here for now
 

yuraya

MetaMember
May 4, 2019
2,690
6,265
113
MGS1 has aged horribly. Skipping to the best MGS game - MGS 2
I'm currently finishing up MGS2.

And yea if you ever want experience a technical jump from one game to its sequel....look no further.

Its really mindblowing how much of a jump MGS2 is over the MGS1. Only being 3 year difference between them really shows how insane the industry used to be.

I would go as far as to say that if MGS2 was released for the first time right now it would pass off as a solid 60$ AA game. Its so impressive it basically checks off all the AAA boxes except the open world stuff that is everywhere today. And I bet for many it would be a breath of fresh air to play something that isn't open world. And yea the textures are dated but really the rest of the game is so technically advanced it would get a pass too. The physics, the destructable environments, the animations, the cutscenes, etc.

BTW make sure to play MGS2 on hard difficulty. The AI becomes so ruthless and is always on such alert it will constantly be putting a smile on your face. It makes it a very potent stealth game and all the tightly designed linear stealth levels shine. Its so impressive its like the AI can smell you from certain distances. Especially in the plant section. The only real tedious/difficult part of a Hard playthrough is one of the final bosses as it does get a bit much. But the rest of the game is a joy to play on hard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zoon and Paul

SaberVS7

Average Date a Live Enjoyer
Jan 23, 2020
239
765
93
Honestly I'm genuinely starting to feel apathetic about this "style"



Unrecord goes viral, and now everyone wants to make their own "Fisheye First Person" game, to an Asset Flippian-degree at this point. With how much I've been seeing it I assume there's some $40-ish Blueprint asset on the Unreal Marketplace that out-of-boxes the camera style?

...For a hot minute I myself pondered implementing a toned down approach into my own FPS project but it became way too "generic" too quickly.
 

yuraya

MetaMember
May 4, 2019
2,690
6,265
113
I really can't believe people are actually playing Sekiro on the Deck.

Remembering my first (and only) playthrough of that game....I would legit break my Deck in half. The shoulder buttons would be done.

The amount of parrying I had to do with all the bs fights with no room for error. All the deaths. Like no fucking way I would play that on Deck unless you really want to make it the last hurrah for your OG deck and your ready to move on to the OLED model.



Also all the FromSoft games made the top 100 except Dark Souls 2

:jj_mofo:

DS2 is so good on Deck wtf.

I will never understand the negligence and slander against that game. It really hurts me knowing that so many new age Souls fans are probably missing out on and overlooking all the fun content that game had to offer.
 

Sobatronix

MetaMember
Mar 9, 2021
779
2,562
93

Grasshopper Manufacture & Shadows of the Damned: Hella Remastered @PAX East 2024
Totally forgot about this, lollipop chainsaw and this game are going to be a must play for the Steam Deck
A lot of old games suck shit anyway.

Last year I completed GTA Vice City and if it wasn’t thanks to nostalgia and that I know the game by heart, I would have abandoned it 30 minutes in.
I never finished back when I was a kid, so I didn't know about the part of owning all those properties in Vice City, the most artificial way to extend the game. Thank god there's an exploit to get a shit ton of money to buy them otherwise I would've dropped it 10 hours in.

Tommy Vercetti Is a great character though
 

Madventure

The Angel of Deaf
Nov 17, 2018
1,640
5,650
113
I played Shadows of the Damned on the 360 or the ps3 or something and I got to the last boss fight and got myself stuck on it for like a week because I saved myself in a way that I had no healing whatsoever and like a third of my life so I had to do the boss perfectly

It pretty much ruined my "This game is great!" to "this game is stupid!"
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,248
12,193
113
lotta text
Well now you might have sold me on giving Symphonia another chance. I didn't gel with it at all initially and never made it far (possibly also because of the bad port).
I now have a Steam Deck though :thinking-face:
(Probably not anytime soon though given how many other JRPGs are in the waiting room right now, but it's back in that room now too).
 
  • Like
Reactions: lashman

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,681
2,902
113
A lot of old games suck shit anyway.

Last year I completed GTA Vice City and if it wasn’t thanks to nostalgia and that I know the game by heart, I would have abandoned it 30 minutes in.
I think it's a bit relative, since not elements aged at the same rate.
GTA3/VC/SA have faaantastic atmosphere, cool stories, the best radios, incredibly creative mission design... and they look a bit old, but then that's normal.
It's really the shooting gameplay that aged horribly, it's just completely flat and feels bad. Of course, that's a huge part of the games, so that's a problem, but I don't think they're completely ruined because of it.

And that's the crux of the matter, some things are deal breakers, some can be excused due to age.
But to come back to my specific issue, you can start Contra 1 right now, from 1987 and have great fun, despite the arcade difficulty. Its fast, fluid (... until it starts chugging a bit), controls like a charm, doesn't need a tutorial.

While you start Perfect Dark... and you get awful controls on an awful controller, atrocious performance that will drop to single digits in many parts, frustrating objectives, terrible AI that might be screw some of those said objectives... and even the modded PC version that doesn't run and look like you're shitfaced drunk, with decent modern controls including mouse+KB... it helps, but still does not fix the massive design issues the game had back then.

Also STHX , I agree with a lot of what you said.
But the enemy encounter design in Tomb Raider? It's abysmal and gunplay is one of the worst of any series, ever. You're just jumping around while hoping that the autolock works okay with the camera freaking out all over the place. Truly dreadful.
That's one thing any of the remakes or the newer games did waaay better.

However yes, the level design is night and day, and I always come back to that.
Level design is fucking dead in modern games. Can't have puzzles, can't have proper dungeons in JRPGs, can't have open ended design and very secret secrets, just make areas bigger and add more mobs.
Ironically, that's why I hate Doom16, because it largely abandoned those levels for linear ones that are just an endless series of locked roms with waves of mobs coming at you. Sure you get some secrets here and there, some power ups to use mid fights, but it absolutely does not feel like Doom.
It feels like Painkiller (oh and it uses incessant QTE to finish mobs, and constant pop ups upgrade objectives for your weapons so it's not too left off in the RPG progression department, and fuck this garbage).

Replaying FF7... it has its ups and downs. One of them being how fucking slow it is, all the time, even to deal with one faceroll random encounter it takes me 5 times that of the Pixel Remasters ones. It's just frustrating.
But on the other hand, I just completed the Shinra tower... and what a difference that was with Remake. Wow, it doesn't last forever! It doesn't have that awful new Hojo's lab! It has proper little puzzles and some really fun extras to find! And a relaxation floor to talk a bit with NPCs and take a breather (unlike that crappy room in Remake that's just here to tell you to complete the VR missions before the game ends). And it's relevant for later.

Everything in modern games destroys level design and pacing so they can add as much filler as possible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jads653 and lashman

Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
3,998
19,252
113
The Eiyuden Chronicle backer beta is out now.
I'm not going to play it (I never play any form of early access for RPGs), but I've read good impressions. It would be amazing if they really managed to pull off a quality Suikoden I/II -style game in 2024.
 

Le Pertti

0.01% Game dev
Oct 10, 2018
8,516
21,817
113
45
Paris, France
lepertti.com
The Eiyuden Chronicle backer beta is out now.
I'm not going to play it (I never play any form of early access for RPGs), but I've read good impressions. It would be amazing if they really managed to pull off a quality Suikoden I/II -style game in 2024.
Im cautiously excited for it. Just watched the trailer for it, it both looks great but still didn't get a feel for how good it is actually be.
 

kio

MetaMember
Apr 19, 2019
1,577
5,072
113
Weeb culture has been taking over the world for the past 15 years or so but I'll remain adamant in my "fuck anime" stance. I'll fight in the trenches for the soul of humanity even if so many of you degenerates have already given in to anime T&A.
 

「Echo」

竜の魔女。
Nov 1, 2018
2,727
7,655
113
Mt. Whatever
I finished RDR2 and moved on FFXV Royal Edition.

This has to be the highest effort SE port right? First of all, the game is beautiful, especially with the 4K-texture DLC they give you. Secondly, Nvidia VXAO, Turf Effects, Shadow Libs, and hair works! 120 FPS. Up-to-8k Display resolution supported. Rendering resolution scale up to 200% separated from display res. THAT GLOBAL ILLUMINATION. :eek: HDR-10. Official mod support! One of the first big DLSS titles. Plug and play with any controller, but still has decent KB+M controls.

... And then they fucked up the CPU scheduling which starves their own engine, tanking performance for the average Joe. lol. No excuse for that. But hey, Special-K exists so it's easy enough to fix myself.

Gorgeous game honestly. Playing at 4K, ~70FPS with everything maxed. There are times where I think it looks better than RDR2 even.

I wish Square-Enix did more ports like this...
 

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,681
2,902
113
I finished RDR2 and moved on FFXV Royal Edition.

This has to be the highest effort SE port right? First of all, the game is beautiful, especially with the 4K-texture DLC they give you. Secondly, Nvidia VXAO, Turf Effects, Shadow Libs, and hair works! 120 FPS. Up-to-8k Display resolution supported. Rendering resolution scale up to 200% separated from display res. THAT GLOBAL ILLUMINATION. :eek: HDR-10. Official mod support! One of the first big DLSS titles. Plug and play with any controller, but still has decent KB+M controls.

... And then they fucked up the CPU scheduling which starves their own engine, tanking performance for the average Joe. lol. No excuse for that. But hey, Special-K exists so it's easy enough to fix myself.

Gorgeous game honestly. Playing at 4K, ~70FPS with everything maxed. There are times where I think it looks better than RDR2 even.

I wish Square-Enix did more ports like this...
It is an amazing port, with some severe engine issues.
The effort invested didn't pan out, and the team behind it largely left for greener pastures (or much smaller roles)... so it's probably not going to happen anymore.
Maybe FF16 will have a decent port, at least they know how PCs work... even if FF14 doesn't really use modern tech.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 「Echo」

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
7,863
15,874
113
I raked my brain to understand which short story it is adapting, and, fuck, it’s the nazi submarine one I think. It shows a perplexing lack of originality as the story was already adapted in manga form by Gou Tanabe, and personally, while totally readable, I don’t really see the appeal.
Anyway, it will probably be extremely short.

It’s also a single dev using AI art, which is… another can of worm. I don’t hate them for it, but it sure is debatable.
 

NarohDethan

There was a fish in the percolator!
Apr 6, 2019
9,036
25,213
113
Weeb culture has been taking over the world for the past 15 years or so but I'll remain adamant in my "fuck anime" stance. I'll fight in the trenches for the soul of humanity even if so many of you degenerates have already given in to anime T&A.
I actually can’t remember the last anime I enjoyed. Watched season 1 of Kaguya sama and it was ok. Tried to watch Demon Slayer but ehh. And it’s clear the thing is going on because it is popular and not because the author intended to.

MHA is a fucking mess right now. Maybe Jojo Golden Wind? But that was an adaptation of a 20 year old manga.
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
7,863
15,874
113
I have been playing Grime for the last few days to change things up from Yakuza 0, but I'm beginning to feel it's obviously time to bail out.
Basically...
Too hard, it's Metroid Souls.
Too imperfect. The map and travel system is a hot mess that I suspect turned most people away.
Too average. It's not bad, it's not particularly memorable either.

And on a final note I'm definitely developing an allergy to Souls narration, where the plot and dialogues are told in the most obtuse way and you have to dedicate a fucking entire wall of theories to it to maybe one day make sense of shit. It's not cute, it doesn't excite my curiosity, it's annoying and played out.

I'm basically at the point in every difficult Metroidvania where I should go scour the map of every little upgrades to stand a chance, and I'm all NOPE. Not doing that.
So yeah. My gaming inertia and ego try to put some resistance, but I think the path is pretty clear cut.
 

Blu

MetaMember
Mar 12, 2019
984
2,962
93
With the Spring sale starting it looks like the Adultswim games will have to be bought at full price if you want them before they are delisted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PC-tan and lashman

FunnyJay

Powered by the Cloud
Apr 6, 2019
1,492
3,890
113
Sweden
Regarding EA's release of classic games on Steam... I've got to hand it to them... EA probably have the games I've bought and rebought the most number of times...

The Saboteur:
On Origin, GOG and now on Steam

Tiberian Sun, Red Alert 2 and C&C Generals:
The original boxes back in the day, in "The First Decade disc box" and now in Ultimate edition on Steam

Tiberium Wars:
The original box, and then on Steam, and it was off course included in the Ultimate Edition on Steam.
 

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
4,179
11,873
113
The Eiyuden Chronicle backer beta is out now.
I'm not going to play it (I never play any form of early access for RPGs), but I've read good impressions. It would be amazing if they really managed to pull off a quality Suikoden I/II -style game in 2024.
I played what is essentially the prologue, and so far it's pretty good. Haven't finished any Suikoden game, so I can't comment on how well it compares. On that front, I am hoping Konami drops the remaster of the first two games soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.