|OT| Novel coronavirus (COVID-19) news & discussion - No, it's not just a flu

[LEANIJA]

you gotta go to the shops off-peak hours!

but yeah, I went to the shop earlier, and some stuff was gone, including toilet paper (which I would actually need soon)...but it wasnt very bad. The retail chains here are telling people via TV as well as in ads in papers that they have plenty of stock and they are working around the clock to refill stocks. They also actively seek new personell. I dont get the panic-buying tbh. Even if you need to go into quarantine for a while, you could still have food delivered?

Anyway, regarding the death rate, I did this quick calculation based on the numbers from Wikipedia:

Countries and territories​	Cases​	Deaths​	Recoveries​	Death rate (%)​
World​	175.691​	6.715​	77.867​	3,822​
China (mainland)​	80.880​	3.213​	67.819​	3,973​
Italy​	24.747​	1.809​	2.335​	7,310​
Iran​	14.991​	853​	4.590​	5,690​
Spain​	9.428​	335​	530​	3,553​
South Korea​	8.236​	75​	1.137​	0,911​
Germany​	6.923​	14​	59​	0,202​
France​	5.423​	127​	12​	2,342​
United States​	4.043​	70​	73​	1,731​
Switzerland​	2.221​	18​	4​	0,810​
United Kingdom​	1.551​	35​	19​	2,257​
Netherlands​	1.414​	24​	2​	1,697​
Norway​	1.308​	3​	1​	0,229​
Belgium​	1.058​	5​	1​	0,473​
Sweden​	1.046​	6​	1​	0,574​
Austria​	1.018​	2​	6​	0,196​
Denmark​	916​	1​	1​	0,109​
Japan​	845​	25​	144​	2,959​
Cruiseship Diamond Princess​	697​	7​	456​	1,004​
Malaysia​	566​	0​	42​	0,000​
Qatar​	401​	0​	4​	0,000​
Australia​	377​	5​	27​	1,326​
Canada​	342​	1​	11​	0,292​
Greece​	331​	4​	8​	1,208​
Portugal​	331​	0​	3​	0,000​
Czech Republic​	298​	0​	0​	0,000​
Finland​	278​	0​	10​	0,000​
Israel​	255​	0​	4​	0,000​
Slovenia​	253​	1​	0​	0,395​
Singapore​	243​	0​	109​	0,000​
Bahrain​	221​	1​	77​	0,452​
Estonia​	205​	0​	1​	0,000​
Brazil​	203​	0​	2​	0,000​
Iceland​	180​	0​	0​	0,000​
Ireland​	170​	2​	5​	1,176​
Romania​	158​	0​	9​	0,000​
Chile​	155​	0​	0​	0,000​
Hong Kong​	155​	4​	84​	2,581​
Poland​	156​	3​	0​	1,923​
Egypt​	150​	2​	32​	1,333​
Thailand​	147​	1​	38​	0,680​
Philippines​	142​	12​	3​	8,451​
Pakistan​	136​	1​	2​	0,735​
Indonesia​	134​	5​	8​	3,731​
Iraq​	125​	10​	26​	8,000​
Kuwait​	123​	0​	9​	0,000​
Saudi Arabia​	118​	0​	3​	0,000​
India​	114​	2​	13​	1,754​
Lebanon​	109​	3​	1​	2,752​
San Marino​	109​	7​	4​	6,422​

 

[Hektor]

1) The Government of my state (NRW) just decided to temporarily suspend operations for plenty of businesses, such as bars, cinemas, swimminghalls, clubs etc.

1a) Restaurants are still allowed to operate until 18:00 (tho i'm not sure what this will achieve, closing them at evening + people having increased homeoffice will make them busier throughout the day now?)

2) Local grocery delivery services can't handle the demand anymore and refuse to take on new orders, which is the first time i'm actually worrying about myself because now we are talking about shortages in the grocery supplies chain which affects everyone (Not like we are actually running out of supplies, it's just more stupid people panic buying)

3a) My government office just decided to roll out 200 homeoffice workplaces (compared to a total of 6000 employees) (I understand it's impossible to organize over 5000 laptops and RSA tokens within a week, but still)

3b) They created a list of systemrelevant departments (Basically just maintenance and IT (lol fuck me) and those that are not (the rest). I am assuming the rest will be told to stay home in case shit hits the fan regardless of homeoffice availability sometime in the future)

3c) They also told us to suspend all face-to-face activity as much as possible. i.e. using emails and telephones even when you are in the next room and other such advices

This is going to be an interesting few months ahead

 

[ZKenir]

1a) Restaurants are still allowed to operate until 18:00 (tho i'm not sure what this will achieve, closing them at evening + people having increased homeoffice will make them busier throughout the day now?)

I suppose if things get worse they'll close them completely

 

[LEANIJA]

In Austria, restaurants and cafés can open only until 15:00, so that the people that still need to work can go have lunch etc. A very sensible solution, I think - assuming people don't exploit it and go out anyway to gather in them. In the evening is when they gotta close, for sure.

 

[Wok]

The situation in Austria is similar to the one in the United Kingdom, so it is interesting to see drastic measures there.

Germany is more akin to France, albeit with far fewer deaths, which makes it interesting to see that the measures are less constraining than in France or Austria.

The plot comes from: Covid-19: active cases and extrapolation

 

[LEANIJA]

I think we just learned from what happened in Northern Italy. And we have ~9 million people, the UK has 67, so we have a higher infection rate here.

2019–20 coronavirus pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NarohDethan]

Yeah I went to get groceries very early yesterday and there was almost noone there

 

[ISee]

Just came home from shopping for us, for my parents and for some old neighbors. The store was strangely empty, like there is enough supplies for people to last for a long time, but certain things are just no longer in existence like flour, toilet paper, soap etc.

Frozen Pizza is gone, but for the ones that nobody seems to like (spinach for example).
Buns that can be warmed in an oven are gone, but for the ones with dried onions (full, nearly untouched)
etc.

It's like there is a crysis but not enough of one to not make people picky. First world problems of a generation that was well protected, I guess. Not that I'm an exception... this feels surreal at times and I didn't buy those nasty onion buns either.

Germany is trying to slow the infection down, there is no hope of stopping it according to experts and the government.
Which means that most people will eventually make contact with the virus, us included.
I'm starting to get worried about the vulnerable people in my life and the feeling of not being able to protect them is pressing me down like crazy today.
I guess I'm starting to realize that not everybody is going to make it. At least children seem to be pretty safe, so that's one huge concern less (currently).

Anyway, Germany is going dark in the next days. EU is going to restrict travel for 30 days etc.
Dare I say that things are getting especially dark for Italy? Stay strong dear neighbors.

 

[Acidote]

So, it has now been confirmed. My workplace shuts down and starting next Monday I'll be officially unemployed. Hopefully, temporarily.

 

[NarohDethan]

So, it has now been confirmed. My workplace shuts down and starting next Monday I'll be oficially unemployed. Hopefully, temporarily.

Man fuck capitalism

 

[Acidote]

Time to fasten my belt. I guess that to begin with I won't be buying a new game until 2021 since my current savings are already dedicated to my home renovation. Cyberpunk will have to wait. Damn.

At least we're all still healthy in the family with no Covid19 symptons on anybody yet.

 

[ZKenir]

I am... working up my anxiety and it's making my stomach churn.

Living in America without insurance, sickness already scares me. I live in a smol town, in a smol county, in NY. I thought it would be well isolated from this, not to the point of "oh it won't come here" but I did think it would take longer. Than yesterday, 3 cases are confirmed in my county. Not locals. But people from the city with Vacation houses moved here to isolate... and brought it with them.

I'm young, just 27. But I've had Asthma since I was born. It got easier to live with as a I grew, almost no impact on my daily life. But it always without fail flairs up when I catch colds/infections. The common cold is gone from my parents within a week, yet for me the same virus will carry on for 3. Allergy season is upon us too, and I get hay fever like crazy every year without fail. (Which also flairs up my Asthma.)

Neither of my jobs, (I work 2), can be digitized or done from home. Both involve heavy person-to-person interaction, and neither are likely to shutdown entirely unless via Government mandate. By day I butcher meat at a Super market, by evening and night I am a bartender.

... I am distraught. The more I think on it, the worse I feel.

Stay safe and don't let anxiety get to you.
By their own nature such events generate a constant stream of bad news, and discourse regarding said events tend to be focused on said bad news.
It's important to read about them and being informed but don't be afraid to step away a bit in order to find a balance, engaging with these topics with a calm mind is important.

I wish you the best, remember to reach out if you need to talk.

 

[Le Pertti]

Just got a text from the french gouvernement that everyone has to stay home for two weeks unless for work, groceries or health reasons.

 

[Wok]

Just got a text from the french gouvernement that everyone has to stay home for two weeks unless for work, groceries or health reasons.

Yes, and you need to have a document signed by yourselves which states the purpose of your outdoor activity if you are controlled by the police:

Alerte Covid | info.gouv.fr

Toute l'information sur les politiques publiques et l'action du Gouvernement

www.gouvernement.fr

 

[Parsnip]

Finland closes schools, declares state of emergency over coronavirus

Daycare centres are to stay open but parents were asked to keep their kids home if possible.

yle.fi

 

[Swenhir]

Yes, and you need to have a document signed by yourselves which states the purpose of your outdoor activity if you are controlled by the police:

Alerte Covid | info.gouv.fr

Toute l'information sur les politiques publiques et l'action du Gouvernement

www.gouvernement.fr

You've got to be kidding

 

[ZKenir]

You've got to be kidding

in Italy is the same

 

[Swenhir]

in Italy is the same

This is insane. I mean... I don't get it.

 

[LEANIJA]

This is insane. I mean... I don't get it.

What don't you get, maybe I can find some info to help you understand?

 

[Copons]

This is insane. I mean... I don't get it.

It's a bit weird, yeah, but I guess it's a good deterrent for unruly societies like Italian (or French as it seems).
More "tame" countries, when told to only leave home to do groceries, they would just do that for the most part. E.g. I don't see the Brits going to the pub when (if?) we're put in lockdown.

Italians? Not so much.

A way to prevent people doing whatever the fuck they want, is to require them to carry this certificate, which basically means that they need to decide where they want to go before leaving home, and if they are stopped by the police, and for some reasons the reason doesn't check out (e.g. they are not on the route home-market), they'd be fined or even jailed (I don't know on what crime? maybe if they are positive and leave the quarantine anyway?)

 

[Wok]

they'd be fined or even jailed

It is only a fine of 135€. Still a deterrent for most people, I would guess.

 

[Swenhir]

What don't you get, maybe I can find some info to help you understand?

Because you are writing what you will say anyway. It's the expression of your will either way. People who want to lie will lie in writing the paper anyway. It's a hassle for no logical reason.

I guess what Copons said kinda makes sense, but I'm still struggling with it. It's so authoritarian, if it was for any other thing than a virus people would be out in the streets. I guess I can't not be repulsed at the method.

 

[Copons]

It is only a fine of 135€. Still a deterrent for most people, I would guess.

Ah yes, I was actually talking about the Italian one. IIRC it's 200€ fine but up to 3 months of jailtime, which I don't see it ever happening IRL, but still...

Because you are writing what you will say anyway. It's the expression of your will either way. People who want to lie will lie in writing the paper anyway. It's a hassle for no logical reason.

I guess what Copons said kinda makes sense, but I'm still struggling with it. It's so authoritarian, if it was for any other thing than a virus people would be out in the streets. I guess I can't not be repulsed at the method.

But thing is, it is for a virus, an unprecedented one even.

It's fair enough, imho, though. The rule is clear: the whole country is in lockdown, and you can only leave home for a handful of unavoidable reasons (food, work, walking the dogs, etc.).
So, it's not like you can go out taking a random walk. When you decide to go out, you already know why. The document per se it's not an additional limitation of freedom, it's just to make extra sure folks won't fuck it up in these dire times.

And to be honest, part of the reason why Italy is in lockdown, even though most cases are still limited in the northern regions, is because one night the government leaked a plan to lock Milan down, and thousands of people ran away, going back to their families in the rest of the countries and whatnot, spreading the virus uncontrollably.
I'd say that you can't fake writing "going to the market" on the document, when you're running towards the station with two oversized trolleys

 

[LEANIJA]

Because you are writing what you will say anyway. It's the expression of your will either way. People who want to lie will lie in writing the paper anyway. It's a hassle for no logical reason.

I guess what Copons said kinda makes sense, but I'm still struggling with it. It's so authoritarian, if it was for any other thing than a virus people would be out in the streets. I guess I can't not be repulsed at the method.

hm, yeah, I get what you mean. I'm not a fan of authoritarianism, but the threat of the virus is real, and we need fight the spread of it with all we can, and people need to see that, and stay home as much as they can. I see people work their asses off, to complete exhaustion, inhumane hours, to treat patients, or to make sure that the exponential growth can be slowed, while so many out there still dont get just how dire the situation really is.

 

[Swenhir]

hm, yeah, I get what you mean. I'm not a fan of authoritarianism, but the threat of the virus is real, and we need fight the spread of it with all we can, and people need to see that, and stay home as much as they can. I see people work their asses off, to complete exhaustion, inhumane hours, to treat patients, or to make sure that the exponential growth can be slowed, while so many out there still dont get just how dire the situation really is.

You are both making good points but I still have this gut feeling, this repulsion to the method that I find dystopian. I mean, looking at the Wuhan documentary linked earlier, those same means of QR code scanning and surveillance state would also be justified to you?

Maybe I'm an idealist but those means scare me, regardless of the ends.

 

[ZKenir]

More "tame" countries, when told to only leave home to do groceries, they would just do that for the most part. E.g. I don't see the Brits going to the pub when (if?) we're put in lockdown.

Tbh from what I see online from pics posted and videos nobody cares in pretty much every EU country, until the shit hits the fan.

Because you are writing what you will say anyway. It's the expression of your will either way. People who want to lie will lie in writing the paper anyway. It's a hassle for no logical reason.

I guess what Copons said kinda makes sense, but I'm still struggling with it. It's so authoritarian, if it was for any other thing than a virus people would be out in the streets. I guess I can't not be repulsed at the method.

You're declaring you're moving due to "x reason" if you lie you are charged with false attestation to a public official and there's jail time for 1 to 6 years if found guilty.
There's also up to 3 months of custody and a fine of €206 for violating the restrictions if you move without a proper reason.
It's also obviously a psychological deterrent although you can surely try to lie.

Autocertifications are nothing new and are used for other dangerous stuff as well for that matter, for example the CE marking on a product is an autocertification as well (and this is an EU directive)

That said, it's not like you're stuck at home at gunpoint, you can go out for a walk and a breath of fresh air if you want provided you stay away from other people and you have the autocertification saying you're going out (same with walking the dog out, jogging, etc.)

 

[Swenhir]

You're declaring you're moving due to "x reason" if you lie you are charged with false attestation to a public official and there's jail time for 1 to 6 years if found guilty.
There's also up to 3 months of custody and a fine of €206 for violating the restrictions if you move without a proper reason.
It's also obviously a psychological deterrent although you can surely try to lie.

Autocertifications are nothing new and are used for other dangerous stuff as well for that matter, for example the CE marking on a product is an autocertification as well.

That said, it's not like you're stuck at home at gunpoint, you can go out for a walk and a breath of fresh air if you want provided you stay away from other people and you have the autocertification saying you're going out (same with walking the dog out, jogging, etc.)

The fact that the penalties are so heavy is even worse to me. You can try to minimize it and go the way of "If you've got nothing to hide, then why are you worried" but the fact of the matter is that it's a dystopian measure. It's authoritarian and I strongly worry that it will be abused in the countries where it is implemented.

 

[ZKenir]

I'll take for weeks that over the virus tbh

 

[texhnolyze]

Waited over an hour and still not in the store.

Is it not possible to buy some of the stuff online?

I stockpiled on supplies yesterday (Sunday) and fortunately lots of stuff are still available online. I bought some other stuff (the big ones) from the local supermarket.

 

[Acidote]

It's a bit weird, yeah, but I guess it's a good deterrent for unruly societies like Italian (or French as it seems).
More "tame" countries, when told to only leave home to do groceries, they would just do that for the most part. E.g. I don't see the Brits going to the pub when (if?) we're put in lockdown.

The Brits were actually the main group of people in bars and restaurantes in many places in Spain after the lockdown started including my town (and my former workplace). Even with some altercations with the police. Quite unruly.

By the way, and something unrelated to this. The social isolation, quarantine or whatever it is will show A LOT of people that they're not social drinkers. They're drunks. Full stop.

 

[Le Pertti]

Is it not possible to buy some of the stuff online?

I stockpiled on supplies yesterday (Sunday) and fortunately lots of stuff are still available online. I bought some other stuff (the big ones) from the local supermarket.

I'm sure it's possible, but since I don't need much it would get expensive. But maybe I'll do a order online and pickup at store next time. Wonder if one has to still stand in que then hmh.

 

[Wok]

one night the government leaked a plan to lock Milan down, and thousands of people ran away, going back to their families in the rest of the countries and whatnot, spreading the virus uncontrollably.

Similar to what it is happening in France (a few people flee cities), because the lockdown starts in 3h30.

 

[Copons]

The fact that the penalties are so heavy is even worse to me. You can try to minimize it and go the way of "If you've got nothing to hide, then why are you worried" but the fact of the matter is that it's a dystopian measure. It's authoritarian and I strongly worry that it will be abused in the countries where it is implemented.

It's just an emergency measure, and an easily reversible one.
I'd be more worried if we were forced to install an app tracking all our movements, for example.

The Brits were actually the main group of people in bars and restaurantes in many places in Spain after the lockdown started including my town (and my former workplace). Even with some altercations with the police. Quite unruly.

Ah yes, some Brits on holiday (or at the pub at 17.01 on Fridays) can be unruly af

But eh, we'll see what happens if they ever lock the UK down. I've come to kinda trust them with civilized/social stuff, but I might be wrong of course, or I might be biased by living in the most progressive city in England.

 

[ISee]

Simply put, most people are currently in phase 1: denial. You see them going out, throwing "corona parties", visit pubs, sometimes even challenge faith itself.
"It's just not true, not happening, media is spinning, won't hit me etc." is the common idea behind it.
I called family in Poland yesterday and they are very sure that the polish epidemic can be stopped and eliminated. I don't think that's true, but I really want to be proven wrong.

This denial is normal and how humans work, people won't react different in the U.K., Germany, France, eastern Europe or Italy. There are certainly some cultural differences, but denial is the first reaction and people will act accordingly.
I'm not an expert and some of you will know more about this or can read it up themselves.
Myself, I'm constantly changing between feeling angry and sad.

 

[Copons]

Simply put, most people are currently in phase 1: denial. You see them going out, throwing "corona parties", visit pubs, sometimes even challenge faith itself.
"It's just not true, not happening, media is spinning, won't hit me etc." is the common idea behind it.
I called family in Poland yesterday and they are very sure that the polish epidemic can be stopped and eliminated. I don't think that's true, but I really want to be proven wrong.

This denial is normal and how humans work, people won't react different in the U.K., Germany, France, eastern Europe or Italy. There are certainly some cultural differences, but denial is the first reaction and people will act accordingly.
I'm not an expert and some of you will know more about this or can read it up themselves.
Myself, I'm constantly changing between feeling angry and sad.

I think nobody really is an expert of a thing of such large scale.
I'd say that one would need to be super irresponsible to be in denial (which is different than underestimating) at this point though.

 

[ISee]

I think nobody really is an expert of a thing of such large scale.
I'd say that one would need to be super irresponsible to be in denial (which is different than underestimating) at this point though.

My understanding is that denial is some kind of a self protection process to allow us to not be overwhelmed by certain situations. Question is where does denial end and ignorance begin?
I don't know, nor am I a psychologist so my understanding is not worth much, if at all.

But I recommend to listen to experts, like psychologists, epidemiologists, people doing mathematical modelling and virologists.
You are correct, even they can not predict the coming months but I'm pretty confident they have a deeper understanding than any of us.

 

[Le Pertti]

I find it little strange that people are so in denial. Like for me, I'm very neutral emotionally and just do what is recommended, that is to stay home as much as possible. But maybe it's because as most here, we are good at this haha.

 

[beep boop]

But I recommend to listen to experts, like psychologists, epidemiologists, people doing mathematical modelling and virologists.
You are correct, even they can not predict the coming months but I'm pretty confident they have a deeper understanding than any of us.

Absolutely. Even if they're not always right (which skeptics love to point at), their best educated guess, estimate, projection, etc. is still better than anything a non-expert can tell you. And expertise in one field does not make a person an authority in another. So listening to the right experts is also important. I'm glad that our PM really underlined this during his speech yesterday. Of course, there will still be people who don't listen, but what can you do.

 

[Acidote]

It's just an emergency measure, and an easily reversible one.
I'd be more worried if we were forced to install an app tracking all our movements, for example.


Ah yes, some Brits on holiday (or at the pub at 17.01 on Fridays) can be unruly af

But eh, we'll see what happens if they ever lock the UK down. I've come to kinda trust them with civilized/social stuff, but I might be wrong of course, or I might be biased by living in the most progressive city in England.

People will mostly behave. Maybe the first day some warnings will need to be issued like the poilice needed to do here yesterday, but one day later things are eerily calm here.

 

[Trisolarian]

Even as late as the last weekend of feb, I was changing my habits. No mall, no indoor rec activity and no public transportation. First weekend of March I knew would be the last normal weekend where I could go out. God, I hope the Ramen place I went to makes it to the other side of this. I hope my parents make it, I hope my job (in industrial computers) makes it out alright, I hope a lot of things.

I was in the middle of making major changes in live, living location, job, etc. and now its survival mode.

For the love of god, don't close county parks/state parks, I need my walk/hike this weekend. Plus I've gotta pick up some restaurant food, if only to support a few local places.

 

[BlackRainbowFT]

I work at a hospital and it's been surreal to say the least.

We've got our first infected patient... most certainly the virus was brought in by one of his family members. The worst thing about this situation is that he was in a confused state (following brain damage) and he was constantly walking around while touching everything and everyone !

I don't know what to say... the only word that comes to mind is "exhausting" .

 

[Wok]

I wanted to purchase a frozen pizza. There is none anymore. All the fridges of the supermarket are empty.

Hello, we don't have any stock problems, but we do have problems restocking our stores as fast as they're empty. That's why we are closing some stores to allow deliveries to arrive and be dispatched safely.

(not me in the tweet)

 

[Acidote]

If you want to make sensible shopping regarding this, I can tell you want things will fly off the shelves and take some time to restock since you seem to be a couple of days behind in all this shit. And yes, refrigerated and frozen pizzas sell out quickly, but there's no stock problem. It's just that they're sold as they're restocked. And do not worry because packs of pasta, legumes and that kind of stuff is selling a lot but it is constantly restocked.

Flour. Yeast: fresh, dry and chemical, they will all sell out. Disposable gloves and masks. Meats get easily restocked but you have to be there early because they sell out quickly too. Toilet paper flies but gets easily restocked. Frozen vegetables like broccoli are falling a bit short on the restocking. If I can think of anything else I'll let you know.

Always take a look on the vegan aisle if there's any because there are some substitutives you could use and nobody looks twice there. Shelves are full.

That said, I'd recommend you all to make a big list and stock as much of your USUAL stuff as you can to avoid as many visits to the shops as you can.

 

[Hektor]

Went to a Kebab shop for lunch earlier and the entire staff was wearing masks, such a weird sight.

Figured i'd get some Döner as long as it's still possible

 

[Wok]

That said, I'd recommend you all to make a big list and stock as much of your USUAL stuff as you can to avoid as many visits to the shops as you can.

Thanks!

 

[curi0usBystander]

So apparently this happened :

 

[ZKenir]

Figured i'd get some Döner as long as it's still possible

Ich hab 'ne Zwiebel auf'm Kopf, ich bin ein Döner, denn Döner macht schöner!
Ich hab 'ne Zwiebel auf'm Kopf, ich bin ein Döner!
Ich hab mich zum Fressen gern!!!

I couldn't resist...

 

[Acidote]

So apparently this happened :

I'm having ill wishes for this man right now.
Get out of my country with that mindset. I don't give a fuck how much money he has.

 

[Hektor]

Ich hab 'ne Zwiebel auf'm Kopf, ich bin ein Döner, denn Döner macht schöner!
Ich hab 'ne Zwiebel auf'm Kopf, ich bin ein Döner!
Ich hab mich zum Fressen gern!!!

I couldn't resist...

how the hell do you know this song

 

[ISee]

So apparently this happened :

This dude is crazy.