Community The Visual Novel Council | All Choices Lead To Here

Kvik

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ACNet (RCAS) I noticed gave me the best results without looking too "filtered" if you kinda know what I mean
I'll give it a go this afternoon when I'm finished with work. Anime4K is sharp with artwork, but it has a haloing effect around fonts which I really dislike.

Every now and again I check on the reddit for news and god this is just fucking insane (from the admin of the VN reddit). Why do VN fans gotta be so weird.
Of course, it's fucking gambs, the pretentious prick. I had the displeasure of visiting r/visualnovels when they posted their opinion piece "Muramasa shouldn't be localised to English because the prose will lose all meaning otherwise" (paraphrased), which is one of the most condescending posts I've ever read in any discussion forum. Of course, there is an inherent problem with most of the audience in r/visualnovels who didn't know what good localisation is, but the patronising tone of most of his posts are part of the problem.

Just because this cunt has JLPT N1 cert, they think they are better than the rest of their peers in that subreddit, and they had the gall to come into the GitHub discussion for Rewrite+ bug report to post inflammatory comments instead of a proper bug report.

My apologies for ranting, but people like gambs is the worst part of the VN community I'd very much like to avoid.
 

skLaFarebear

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I'll give it a go this afternoon when I'm finished with work. Anime4K is sharp with artwork, but it has a haloing effect around fonts which I really dislike.
I noticed the same thing with 4k, that's why I went with ACNet instead and it looked much better in comparison. Magpie has plenty of different options to choose from though.


Of course, it's fucking gambs, the pretentious prick. I had the displeasure of visiting r/visualnovels when they posted their opinion piece "Muramasa shouldn't be localised to English because the prose will lose all meaning otherwise" (paraphrased), which is one of the most condescending posts I've ever read in any discussion forum. Of course, there is an inherent problem with most of the audience in r/visualnovels who didn't know what good localisation is, but the patronising tone of most of his posts are part of the problem.

Just because this cunt has JLPT N1 cert, they think they are better than the rest of their peers in that subreddit, and they had the gall to come into the GitHub discussion for Rewrite+ bug report to post inflammatory comments instead of a proper bug report.

My apologies for ranting, but people like gambs is the worst part of the VN community I'd very much like to avoid.
The full post for context for anyone that cares (if you don't mind toxicity it's a pretty hilarious and equally unhinged read). I think the frustration is well deserved, especially when he compared the "discrimination" himself and other Japanese Only Players receive to black civil rights activists:

In order to make things fair here, honestly JOP voices should be amplified in some way (see this image to understand what I'm getting at).
I mean, from the occasional times i've visited the reddit and seen him post on there and Twitter, I always knew he was kinda off, but I didn't know just how deranged, and honestly idiotic, he really was till I saw he wrote this whole head ass email lmao.
 

Exzyleph

Dark Eroge Lord
Oct 9, 2018
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First game on sale for 50% off. Buying things such a pain in the ass on Johren but what can u do.
If you have the patience for it, then the recommended way to buy stuff on Johren is to buy the two +150% credit packs they frequently put up for sale (a total of $10 worth of credit for $4). That's another 60% off on top of whatever discount they are running, so with a 50% discount you'd be able to get MWA for a total of $8. But you can only buy those packs once per sale, hence the need for patience.
 
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beep boop

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Finished part 3 of Umineko. That was certainly a ride. I see in the game forums for it people are like “you should think along with Battler” to get the most out of the game, but I honestly don’t know how I could’ve possibly anticipated the way events unfolded there 😅
 

Exzyleph

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Oct 9, 2018
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Finished part 3 of Umineko. That was certainly a ride. I see in the game forums for it people are like “you should think along with Battler” to get the most out of the game, but I honestly don’t know how I could’ve possibly anticipated the way events unfolded there 😅
I barely figured out anything while reading Umineko, but it did end up motivating me to try much harder with subsequent mystery VNs :D

I'd recommend that you try listening to the Rokenjima bookclub podcasts at some point.
They did an excellent job of bringing up all the clues, possibilities, and foreshadowing that I had missed when I read Umineko and it really elevated the experience.
 
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beep boop

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I barely figured out anything while reading Umineko, but it did end up motivating me to try much harder with subsequent mystery VNs :D

I'd recommend that you try listening to the Rokenjima bookclub podcasts at some point.
They did an excellent job of bringing up all the clues, possibilities, and foreshadowing that I had missed when I read Umineko and it really elevated the experience.
Thanks, I'll have a listen!
 
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「Echo」

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We were talking in the FGO-Era thread recently about how Type-Moon hasn't really made any effort to get Tsukihime, Fate/Stay, or Mahoutsukai to literally anywhere outside of Japan. ... despite the fact that Nasu's various franchises literally rake in billions of dollars globally.

It's honestly kinda bonkers.

People spent upwards of $300 on physical editions for Muramasa.... Imagine how much people would spend for Fate? It's often said that console devs are "leaving money on the table" when they refuse to do PC versions, but in the case of Type-Moon it really feels like they're leaving not just money on the table but like dumptrucks and suitcases full of money...

I'm 100% confident in saying if they put F/SN on Steam, it would become the best selling VN on the platform EVER within 24-hours.
 
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skLaFarebear

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We were talking in the FGO-Era thread recently about how Type-Moon hasn't really made any effort to get Tsukihime, Fate/Stay, or Mahoutsukai to literally anywhere outside of Japan. ... despite the fact that Nasu's various franchises literally rake in billions of dollars globally.

It's honestly kinda bonkers.

People spent upwards of $300 on physical editions for Muramasa.... Imagine how much people would spend for Fate? It's often said that console devs are "leaving money on the table" when they refuse to do PC versions, but in the case of Type-Moon it really feels like they're leaving not just money on the table but like dumptrucks and suitcases full of money...

I'm 100% confident in saying if they put F/SN on Steam, it would become the best selling VN on the platform EVER within 24-hours.
Aniplex/TM have slowly been dipping into the west with them establishing a game localization division and their EN releases of FGO, as well as Melty TL and the english premiere showings of the Heaven's Feel movies. I genuinely believe it's only a matter of time before the first big breakthrough. Tsukire will happen, but it's a massive game that's gonna need a while to localize. We just need to be patient.

I do absolutely agree though that the TM heads around the world will go hard for any Tsukire and Fate merch/CEs/etc. VN fans with too much money than they know what to do with (me) are starved for merch and will spend ridiculous amounts for it

Idk about that last point, Doki Doki and Nekopara (if we count the whole franchise) are just simply too popular as they essentially transcended the medium itself. Also if I'm aniplex and TM, idk if I want F/SN in it's current incarnation to be released globally. As much as I still enjoy it and think it holds up pretty well, it is also very crusty and the script itself has a lot of jank. It would also take a lot of resources and time to translate from scratch on their end, and if Aniplex/TM/Nasu are thinking what I'm thinking, I wouldn't be surprised if a F/SN remake was in the cards after Tsukire Red Side.
 
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rickyson33

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Apr 26, 2019
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some news from Novectacle (Fata Morgana devs)


relevant bit with a new announcement:

And, this is the first time I'm announcing this as an official account, we've also been working on different new work. We have a realistic development schedule for this project, and we plan to release information about it on our teaser site in the spring of 2022. We can't reveal the release timing at this time, but we are targeting 2023.
Production is progressing smoothly, and we have completed a demo game in preparation for acquiring a publisher.
In terms of genre, it will be a deductive mystery ADV with gameplay, but it will have an unique system, so I hope you will wait for more details. It's a big project, and will be as long as or longer than The House in Fata Morgana.
feels like i've been waiting for something new out of them for forever so here's hoping it doesn't go the way of the last thing they announced(which apparently they are also still working on but essentially have had to start over from scratch so sounds like it's years out at best)
 
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「Echo」

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Aniplex/TM have slowly been dipping into the west with them establishing a game localization division and their EN releases of FGO, as well as Melty TL and the english premiere showings of the Heaven's Feel movies. I genuinely believe it's only a matter of time before the first big breakthrough. Tsukire will happen, but it's a massive game that's gonna need a while to localize. We just need to be patient.

I do absolutely agree though that the TM heads around the world will go hard for any Tsukire and Fate merch/CEs/etc. VN fans with too much money than they know what to do with (me) are starved for merch and will spend ridiculous amounts for it

Idk about that last point, Doki Doki and Nekopara (if we count the whole franchise) are just simply too popular as they essentially transcended the medium itself. Also if I'm aniplex and TM, idk if I want F/SN in it's current incarnation to be released globally. As much as I still enjoy it and think it holds up pretty well, it is also very crusty and the script itself has a lot of jank. It would also take a lot of resources and time to translate from scratch on their end, and if Aniplex/TM/Nasu are thinking what I'm thinking, I wouldn't be surprised if a F/SN remake was in the cards after Tsukire Red Side.
I think F/SN will be remade as well in the same vein as Tsukihime. (See ya in 15 years!!) :death: Maybe Nasu will leave that as his capstone at TM. I imagine it will be close to retirement time by than lol.

As for comparisons to Nekopara and Doki Doki, well DDLC was free and Nekopara is... it's a meme series right? I try to forget it exists most days. :p
 

Kvik

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As if I don't have enough VN to read already, I managed to get distracted by VLR. :flare_lmao:

The puzzles are a step up from 999, but the story was kind of so-so, I guess? It's been years since I've played 999 so I forgot most of the callbacks.
 

skLaFarebear

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That ML stream last night was fucking terrible (nearly 30 minutes dedicated to NFT talk). And while the trailers themselves were just mvs of previously shown CGs, there's actually a really neat easter egg in the Resonative trailer.

minor TDA and TE
One of the faces in that CG of Marimo and people on stage behind her that was originally fully hidden in the shadow, had more detailed filled in on that trailer and you can see it's Yui from TE.
 

「Echo」

Reaper on Station。
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Mt. Whatever
Sigh I came to post the Mahoyo news also. Not exactly the news i was hoping for but eh. I don't have my PS4 anymore, but at least Switch is region free.

In quasi-VN news, FGO got a pity system... finally. :v A new Tamamo and many other updates. \o/
 

skLaFarebear

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New Muv-Luv VN was announced, Muv-Luv DUTY -LOST ARCADIA-



The name based on a novel of short stories about the 44th Tactical Armor Battalion Zerberus (the squad from the Adoration story in Photonmelodies). This is probably the "eurofront" VN that Kouki teased that they've always wanted to do.

Why they decided not to include this on their main news stream and talk about NFTs for 30 minutes, your guess is as good as mine.


Sigh I came to post the Mahoyo news also. Not exactly the news i was hoping for but eh. I don't have my PS4 anymore, but at least Switch is region free.

In quasi-VN news, FGO got a pity system... finally. :v A new Tamamo and many other updates. \o/
At the very least, whenever the Hollow Moon fellas wrap up the fan TL they can rip the voice assets and add them to the PC version fairly easily if F/HA was anything to go by.
 

Kvik

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I don't know, the whole NFT anime thing soured me a little bit. It's good that Anchor has big ambitions, but western Muv-Luv fans are a fickle bunch and they are more interested in the localisation of their older titles, since the anime itself is ... well, I won't say it was bad, because it's not Berserk 2017 and clearly they have more effort invested in it, but it's hard to recommend it even to anime watchers who are not necessarily a VN fan.

Not to mention Project Mikhail is nowhere near ready.
 

ZKenir

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As someome from EU the very thought of aniplex imvolved with VN makes my stomach churn
 

Kvik

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skLaFarebear

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I don't know, the whole NFT anime thing soured me a little bit. It's good that Anchor has big ambitions, but western Muv-Luv fans are a fickle bunch and they are more interested in the localisation of their older titles, since the anime itself is ... well, I won't say it was bad, because it's not Berserk 2017 and clearly they have more effort invested in it, but it's hard to recommend it even to anime watchers who are not necessarily a VN fan.

Not to mention Project Mikhail is nowhere near ready.
The anime's a bastardization of the VN, but Kouki himself was barely involved with it, and has gone on to talk some lowkey shit about it. But, if we're gonna start casting doubt on every VN with a bad anime adaptation do I have a very very very long list for you. At the very least it was a great sales boost for the VNs themselves, so I can at least see the silver lining. Mikhail's definitely a bit of a mess, but they've also been very receptive to feedback and have been constantly improving on it since release. It's Early Access and Anchor's first real non VN project, so I try not to be too harsh, even if I don't have much faith it'll turn out to be great by the end.

I also doubt we see any of their big new projects anytime soon anyway, which is fine since the west has a lot of Muv-Luv media to still catch up on (the stream specifically mentioned Schwarzesmarken's localization). While a lot of progress on these projects has been made, it's still Anchor and expecting a release anytime in the next year for Resonative alone is optimistic, let alone Lost Arcadia and Integrate which are both probably years out. It's a shame the NFT shit really salted the experience for the audience because as an outsider looking in, it seems like it's a bad time to be a fan of the franchise when people don't really know how bad it was looking for Muv-Luv years ago, and while I do hope their gamble to expand the franchise works out for them, hopefully this NFT shit crashes and burns as quickly as possible. If Ages wants to sell me some actual real merch for overly expensive prices, instead of a fucking receipt to a google hosted JPEG, I would gladly buy them.
 

GhostTrick

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Honestly speaking, I think people are WAY overreacting with the NFT stuff.

It's not even the NFT things being part of the main stuff, which I would find upsetting, that is even criticized, it's the mere existence of it as a side-product that is producing that vitriol in West.

I'd get people being upset if the NFT stuff was integrated in the main games. I'd get people being upset if no new games or localizations were coming and all we'd get with Muv-Luv would be NFTs.


But we're in a situation where it's not one game, not two games, but now THREE new VN titles coming soon. One being a sequel to Alternative, one being a sequel to TDA and one being an adaptation of Duty Lost Arcadia/sequel to Schwarzesmarken (which might get localized next year)


If the mere existence of an NFT collab is what it takes to sour an audience, then I think that audience should read the room a bit more and be less hyperbolic.

It's not to say the event had an exciting presentation.

It's just that, much like soccer, people shouldn't be in the culture of the instant. Things aren't about what they're at the instant but at the bigger picture.

I'd honestly prefer the situation where I am right now, with one game out in 2 months, one localization potentiallt next year and 3 new titles but with some NFT collabs side content rather than the Type-Moon situation where, despite having a SHITLOAD of FGO cash, fans are getting a partial remake of Tsukihime (with no localization in sight, if ever and not on PC), a port of Mahoyo (a 10 years old title) in Full HD with voices, skipping PC and with no localization in sight... Mahoyo which is also unfinished because other parts were supposed to release too.

But at least, a movie of that port is coming and a new FGO character too.


And let's not talk about 07th releasing ANOTHER Higurashi port while Ciconia has been MIA for 2 years.
And I'm not even touching on the worrying trend of Steam banning anything that is remotely a visual nove, sometimes for good reasons sometimes for no reasons, while letting in any crap that is a 3*3 puzzle or RPG Maker game, with the same kind of shitty content.
 

GhostTrick

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Oct 20, 2018
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07th Expansion doesn't handle the console ports, just FWIW


They don't but I guess they greenlight what releases or not. The point being, they're milking yet another Higu re-release while Ciconia is MIA and in the process of rewriting.
 

beep boop

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A new port of Higurashi? Where can I read more about this? Tried googling but didn't get anything.
 

skLaFarebear

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Honestly speaking, I think people are WAY overreacting with the NFT stuff.

It's not even the NFT things being part of the main stuff, which I would find upsetting, that is even criticized, it's the mere existence of it as a side-product that is producing that vitriol in West.

I'd get people being upset if the NFT stuff was integrated in the main games. I'd get people being upset if no new games or localizations were coming and all we'd get with Muv-Luv would be NFTs.


But we're in a situation where it's not one game, not two games, but now THREE new VN titles coming soon. One being a sequel to Alternative, one being a sequel to TDA and one being an adaptation of Duty Lost Arcadia/sequel to Schwarzesmarken (which might get localized next year)


If the mere existence of an NFT collab is what it takes to sour an audience, then I think that audience should read the room a bit more and be less hyperbolic.

It's not to say the event had an exciting presentation.

It's just that, much like soccer, people shouldn't be in the culture of the instant. Things aren't about what they're at the instant but at the bigger picture.
And that's where the worry is right here. The stream, by the producers themselves, was hyped up to be the future of Muv-Luv, where they spent more than half the time talking about NFTs. Ignoring the environmental harm it does, for now we can say it's "harmless" since it's some side thing, but if you don't honestly don't think there are gonna be long term plans to try and integrate (lol) this shit into the games then idk what to tell you. That's why it's important to push back hard on it now and let them know how gross this shit is, especially when you got companies like Ubisoft and SE sending out memos of how NFTs and blockchains in their main franchises is the future of the company/industry. Like I said, I don't expect this to take off in any meaningful way. I'd be shocked if this didn't crash for them within the year because seriously who is this even for in this niche fanbase? You expect me to believe that a fanbase that pirates their products more than any other is suddenly gonna start dropping big money on receipts to some ugly jpegs/gifs?

And it's obvious that the creator of the franchise himself Kouki despises it when you see how absolutely bored and dead inside he looks whenever they start deep diving into NFT talk, but hey he's the one who also signed the deal with the devil. Overall I can't be too mad since signing these deals let them come into some big money to keep producing new titles, but it also extremely worrying how a self-described future of Muv-Luv stream spent more time talking about NFTs than the games, merch, and general future of Ages combined.
 
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GhostTrick

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A new port of Higurashi? Where can I read more about this? Tried googling but didn't get anything.
Higurashi Hou+

And that's where the worry is right here. The stream, by the producers themselves, was hyped up to be the future of Muv-Luv, where they spent more than half the time talking about NFTs. Ignoring the environmental harm it does, for now we can say it's "harmless" since it's some side thing, but if you don't honestly don't think there are gonna be long term plans to try and integrate (lol) this shit into the games then idk what to tell you. That's why it's important to push back hard on it now and let them know how gross this shit is, especially when you got companies like Ubisoft and SE sending out memos of how NFTs and blockchains in their main franchises is the future of the company/industry. Like I said, I don't expect this to take off in any meaningful way. I'd be shocked if this didn't crash for them within the year because seriously who is this even for in this niche fanbase? You expect me to believe that a fanbase that pirates their products more than any other is suddenly gonna start dropping big money on receipts to some ugly jpegs/gifs?

And it's obvious that the creator of the franchise himself Kouki despises it when you see how absolutely bored and dead inside he looks whenever they start deep diving into NFT talk, but hey he's the one who also signed the deal with the devil. Overall I can't be too mad since signing these deals let them come into some big money to keep producing new titles, but it also extremely worrying how a self-described future of Muv-Luv stream spent more time talking about NFTs than the games, merch, and general future of Ages combined.

What's more to say about Integrate and Resonative ?
The NFT talk sounded long for two reasons:
  • No one wants to hear about it
  • They were explaining their collab thing

I agree, it sucks. But to paint it as the sole talk for the future of the serie is wrong. It always was talked as a side product. Now, maybe someday, it'll be integrated in games (I have a hard time seeing how you can implement NFTs into a single player visuel novel title, except if you plan to sell NFT of some CGs... Which I don't see how it'll impact the game itself since it'd be a side product) and that day I'll just move on.

Then again, it's fair criticism. The problem is the hyperbole around it. I think there's quite a big difference between "the show was only about NFT" and "the show had another half about NFT collabs". Especially with the vitriol some people has shown on twitter, with the hyperbole that comes with it. But criticism only works when it aims right, not when it's aimless.
 

skLaFarebear

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What's more to say about Integrate and Resonative ?
The NFT talk sounded long for two reasons:
  • No one wants to hear about it
  • They were explaining their collab thing

I agree, it sucks. But to paint it as the sole talk for the future of the serie is wrong. It always was talked as a side product. Now, maybe someday, it'll be integrated in games (I have a hard time seeing how you can implement NFTs into a single player visuel novel title, except if you plan to sell NFT of some CGs... Which I don't see how it'll impact the game itself since it'd be a side product) and that day I'll just move on.

Then again, it's fair criticism. The problem is the hyperbole around it. I think there's quite a big difference between "the show was only about NFT" and "the show had another half about NFT collabs". Especially with the vitriol some people has shown on twitter, with the hyperbole that comes with it. But criticism only works when it aims right, not when it's aimless.
Not much, but my problem is that they announced a brand new VN about the eurofront, something that fans have been begging for for years and Kouki himself has talked about wanting to do, on a random New Years stream instead of the hyped up future of Muv-Luv stream. And it didn't sound long, it quite actually was that long. Go back and watch the stream again, the back half of that stream was quite literally filled with NFT talk with only a bit of it dedicated their new fan submission program (which I think is genuinely cool but that's besides the point). My point is, when the stream is labelled and hyped up as the below and it's dominated by NFTs, something tells me Anchor doesn't think of them of side products anymore

 

「Echo」

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"...Coming west" :fingergunsblob:

"... Via Johren" 😓

Well that's ok. The last time I try to get into Moe style games, I ended up disappointed. (IE: Sabbat of the Witch.)
 

Snakethesniper

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Jan 11, 2019
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Finished Fate, can start Muramasa finally.
What are the best settings to use with Magpie? Should I use ACNET and upscale the 1024 window?
 
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Snakethesniper

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nice! I can't answer these Magpie questions, but i am curious if the final Fate route demeed it any for you?
eh, honestly not much. It was a bit more interesting to me because I like gritty/dark settings, but in the end it's not something I would say I actually enjoyed reading for 60 hours
 
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tetel

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The annoying part about Ciconia missing is that we haven't got any communication on Umineko Saku either (other than the initial confirmation).

Finished Buried Stars recently. It's fine although I wouldn't really go out of my way to recommend it - I liked the mystery parts and some themes it touches on (e.g. working conditions) but I didn't really buy (some parts of) the ending and it really struggles during communication segments. Even if guided, they are just too common, too long and it's just a lot of same-y dialogues to learn a thing or two.

The game is also missing a proper skip mode (it just fast-forwards through everything) which is rather annoying considering its structure. Port is fine, KBM controls are there and it supports 720p/1080p resolutions.

Bought Sekimeya (and WILL) during the sale so that one is probably next.
 

beep boop

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I have beaten Umineko Question Arcs and it has beaten me in a dramatic double KO. Enjoyed parts of it, but I wish it was like a third of its length. I read the novel changes things up a little in Answers and it sounds somewhat interesting, but a significant part of my difficulty reading Questions has been Ryukishi's writing style, which I personally found quite tiresome and suspect will remain the same.

Exzyleph I've been listening to those podcasts as I read along. Looking forward to listening to the last one. They've been pretty entertaining so far. I might just substitute reading Answers for listening to the pod. Thanks again for the recommendation.

Next up, I've got Muv-Luv.... I'm not super big on romance, but I could use something light right now. Hopefully that'll do the trick. I'm aware it takes a turn eventually, but hopefully I'll enjoy the ride until that point too.
 

skLaFarebear

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I have beaten Umineko Question Arcs and it has beaten me in a dramatic double KO. Enjoyed parts of it, but I wish it was like a third of its length. I read the novel changes things up a little in Answers and it sounds somewhat interesting, but a significant part of my difficulty reading Questions has been Ryukishi's writing style, which I personally found quite tiresome and suspect will remain the same.

Exzyleph I've been listening to those podcasts as I read along. Looking forward to listening to the last one. They've been pretty entertaining so far. I might just substitute reading Answers for listening to the pod. Thanks again for the recommendation.

Next up, I've got Muv-Luv.... I'm not super big on romance, but I could use something light right now. Hopefully that'll do the trick. I'm aware it takes a turn eventually, but hopefully I'll enjoy the ride until that point too.
The Romance in Muv-Luv is extremely light. Like we're talking maybe the last hour of the VN for each route. It's largely a comedy/SoL.
 
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skLaFarebear

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Bango and Meru on the localization for Cyanotype. My worries about the localization being bad/MTL are pretty much gone at this point, excited to pick this up when it drops.

Hopefully Laplacian does get an english speaking person for their social media though...
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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Do we have linux users in this thread ? Can I hope to play most VN with Proton ? Does Muramasa runs with Proton ?
My use case for the Deck is mostly emulation and VN. If you take VN out of the equation, it would seriously blow.
 

skLaFarebear

MetaMember
Dec 4, 2019
653
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Do we have linux users in this thread ? Can I hope to play most VN with Proton ? Does Muramasa runs with Proton ?
My use case for the Deck is mostly emulation and VN. If you take VN out of the equation, it would seriously blow.
From what I've seen of VNs on Steam, most are Proton compatible. Last I heard the version of Proton that the Steam Deck will be running is on a newer version so we can't really say for sure, but a lot of devs including VN devs like Sekai Project, have been given dev kits so hopefully that means most VNs will work out of the box, Steam or not.

JAST games released recently tend to work on multiple OSes, so I'd hope that Muramasa is one of them.

You can search here for them at least for steam games/vns https://www.protondb.com/

Edit: Reason #1 why you don't use MTL for your EN Social Media Account: Sarcasm

 
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