Community MetaSteam | May 2021 - Wallets Gone

[prudis]

If this is true, Valve should be sued

Regarding the Valve class action - Wolfire Games Blog

Dear gamers and game developers, I would like to explain why Wolfire Games is seeking to represent game developers in a class action suit against Valve Corporation. I felt that I had no choice, because I believe gamers and game developers are being harmed by Valve's conduct. While I am ...

blog.wolfire.com

there is something about the wording in the blog post that makes me super suspicious. And i dont just mean it being superclose to T.S. tweets from 2019. It feels like he mixes and implies up few things together which arent directly related

 

[Blu]

 

[fspm]

They are.

Quoting the blog post to read it later

Dear gamers and game developers,
I would like to explain why Wolfire Games is seeking to represent game developers in a class action suit against Valve Corporation. I felt that I had no choice, because I believe gamers and game developers are being harmed by Valve's conduct. While I am taking on significant personal risk, I am not doing this for personal gain. If there’s any monetary recovery, it will be distributed to all developers and gamers in the class.
I did not set out with the goal of suing Valve, but I have personally experienced the conduct described in the complaint. When new video game stores were opening that charged much lower commissions than Valve, I decided that I would provide my game "Overgrowth" at a lower price to take advantage of the lower commission rates. I intended to write a blog post about the results.
But when I asked Valve about this plan, they replied that they would remove Overgrowth from Steam if I allowed it to be sold at a lower price anywhere, even from my own website without Steam keys and without Steam’s DRM. This would make it impossible for me, or any game developer, to determine whether or not Steam is earning their commission. I believe that other developers who charged lower prices on other stores have been contacted by Valve, telling them that their games will be removed from Steam if they did not raise their prices on competing stores.
While talking to other developers about problems that they were having with Steam, they kept referring to it as a "monopoly," and saying that there was nothing that we could do. I wondered, has anyone actually checked if Valve is obeying antitrust law? So I consulted with legal experts, which eventually culminated in the complaint.
As the dominant platform, when developers list their games on multiple PC stores, the majority of their sales will come through Steam. I believe this makes most developers afraid that if they don't sell on Steam, they will lose the majority of their revenue. To those developers, avoiding Steam would add unacceptable risk to the already high risk of game development in general. I believe that most developers have little or no choice but to sell on Steam and do as they're told by Valve.
I believe that businesses are free to do whatever they want within the law. However, once a company reaches a certain level of power over an entire market, the antitrust laws forbid those companies from distorting competition. I believe that Valve is taking away gamers' freedom to choose how much extra they are willing to pay to use their platform. I believe they are taking away competing stores' freedom to compete by taking advantage of their lower commission rates. I believe they are taking away developers' freedom to use different pricing models.
In my opinion, this is part of why all competing stores have failed. This suit insists that Valve stop interfering with pricing on other stores, and allow gamers and developers to make their own decisions. That’s why I joined the lawsuit.
Sincerely,
David Rosen

Let's assume I'm steam and spam millions of my users with: Overgrowth - last chance to preorder, Overgrowth - midweek madnes - 40% off, Overgrowth - content update blabla (damn aren't all of those annoying af). Offering my bandwidth etc. And then some dipshit procceds to sell, probably my keys too which I don't even take a cut from, on his shoddy site and those keys are 60% cheaper.
And I'm like Ok, everyone will buy Overgrowth on some shoddy site while I do all the lifting and get nothing. But it's all right, this doesn't bother me at all cause I'm that cool - fighting for the little guy.

 

[ZKenir]

 

[Mor]

stay strong Mor our time will come

I will, for all of you, FOR THE CAUSE! FOR THE HORD- wait no, that's something else, FOR THE STEAMERS!

 

[Amzin]

If this is true, Valve should be sued

Regarding the Valve class action - Wolfire Games Blog

Dear gamers and game developers, I would like to explain why Wolfire Games is seeking to represent game developers in a class action suit against Valve Corporation. I felt that I had no choice, because I believe gamers and game developers are being harmed by Valve's conduct. While I am ...

blog.wolfire.com

"Why you should believe us."

And why the reason is bollocks:
1. if they are selling Steam keys at their own store they could just make a semi-permanent 30% sale while the base price is the same as on Steam. they could even do a 2-day 30% sale on Steam to circumvent the "you shall offer the same/equivalent sale on Steam as on other stores".
2. if it was more than 30% why are they fleecing steam buyers?
3. All his arguments about competition with other stores are bollocks, because the stores already can do everything he said that they can't do.

:thinking:

Other than this weird precision, I agree with both Lars and Chet about soft power:

• there is what is written,
• there is the rumour which spreads from devs to devs.

Some clauses do not need to be written (or even true for that matter), they will be enforced by the weak ones themselves if there is a large power asymmetry.

Now, the question is whether there is some truth to "what I heard my older brother talk about". Or has there ever been some truth to it, like 10 years ago?

Have these people deceived themselves?

As others have pointed out, there is at best no evidence of this being documented, but if you look at literally any 3 random games on Steam you will normally find that their cheapest price was never on Steam and likely never will be. Someone said Wolfire also referenced bundled games being required to see price parity on Steam which I don't think has ever happened in the history of Steam, unless a bundled game was free at some point. Edit: 100% of Humble Monthly games would fail this check if they actually had this rule or enforced it

This really sounds like Wolfire is either making this up, or specifically said to Steam they are going to do something exactly against the (frankly, generous) Steam dev contract, and Steam said "hey don't do that or we have to take your game down" and now Wolfire is suing but under false pretenses publicly.

I believe the most common interpretation of Steam pricing rules is the MSRB / base price can't be different for Steam keys sold outside of Steam but even then there are no shortage of exceptions. Sale prices being matched on Steam is laughable as an argument as it's difficult to find games that go on sale regularly that haven't been cheaper off Steam. Pre-orders on Steam are typically 10% off for however many months whereas on GMG, Humble, or any number of other sites they can see upwards of 30-40% off, again for months. That alone disproves the public claim Wolfire is making.

Steam also limits how often your game can be on sale on Steam, but no such limitations seem to exist on other storefronts. I missed a Steam sale on Manifold Garden while the key was also on sale on itch.io, but like 2 weeks later it was on sale on itch again for the same discount.

Like, there are legitimate complaints to level at Steam and it is incredibly frustrating to constantly see publishers and devs level compaints and suits against Steam for things that are utterly untrue.

 

[BoosterDuck]

turtle rock just released a new trailer for back4blood
obviously revving up their engines for e3

it looks like a decent 8/10 co-op game right now
I want to see what versus mode looks like though

 

[sanhora]

 

[lashman]

 

[Valdien]

 

[Alextended]

Probly old but they just tweeted it.

 

[MJunioR]

Finished NFS: Payback and I couldn't be happier with it. It's not perfect by any means, and if you didn't like the PS2-era games from the series that came after Hot Pursuit 2 (UG, UG2, MW, CB, UC) I don't see you enjoying PB either, but goddamn they managed to get a lot right for people who enjoyed those games.

And of course, not every element from the NFS games from that era were great, and some of these not-so-great points are brought back here (late-game races being too long, police AI too dumb and aggressive, strange opponent AI behaviour etc), and the card system used to upgrade cars shouldn't be a thing, but there's so much to love still.

Honestly, 12 months of EA Play on Steam is one of the best deals I got last year. I finally went through games that I otherwise wouldn't even touch (ME: Catalyst, Mass Effect Andromeda, Payback, BF: Hardline), it saved me some money from games that I'd otherwise have bought and ended not enjoying (Fallen Order, NFS: Heat, BFV) and I discovered some great titles too. I for sure can't complain.

 

[yuraya]

I didn't play the alpha but Back 4 Blood doesn't look very polished or next gen. I'm sure it will be fun but still meh on it. I think Darktide looks a lot better and more ambitious. A lot more dark and slower too tho so who knows how that plays out.

Would have been much cooler if Valve made L4D3 with Source 2. Some crazy large story driven co-op thing. Its exactly the type of next gen AAA shakeup/evolution that genre needs.

 

[lashman]

Probly old but they just tweeted it.

soooooo can't wait!!!

 

[Blu]

 

[Vantr]

If this is true, Valve should be sued

Regarding the Valve class action - Wolfire Games Blog

Dear gamers and game developers, I would like to explain why Wolfire Games is seeking to represent game developers in a class action suit against Valve Corporation. I felt that I had no choice, because I believe gamers and game developers are being harmed by Valve's conduct. While I am ...

blog.wolfire.com

As others have said this seems a little suspicious especially since there a lot of people have said there has been no documentation of this but my opinion of the class action is that it is more justified than I initially thought. If Valve is making developers have price parity in private communication especially for builds that have no reliance on Steam, then they should be sued. We will probably find out the facts as the class action especially that private communication since I'm very curious if it may have been misinterpreted or if circumstances have changed since Wolfire spoke with Valve.

I didn't play the alpha but Back 4 Blood doesn't look very polished or next gen. I'm sure it will be fun but still meh on it. I think Darktide looks a lot better and more ambitious. A lot more dark and slower too tho so who knows how that plays out.

Would have been much cooler if Valve made L4D3 with Source 2. Some crazy large story driven co-op thing. Its exactly the type of next gen AAA shakeup/evolution that genre needs.

From what I've seen of Back 4 Blood it seems like it would be fun but some of their gameplay mechanics/content roadmap are making me wary like the card system and maps/story content DLC which might fracture the player base especially if they have "live service" elements. When I look at all that and the price point of the game ($360 AUD for 4 people which I think is hard to commit to) I just think well it would probably be better to just play L4D2 and download some maps from the Workshop.

 

[Alexandros]

I'm very much looking forward to the Wolfire trial to get more juicy info on the inner workings of the industry. I don't believe that they filed this lawsuit with no evidence to support it, at the very least they should present email exchanges with Valve that demonstrate the behavior they are suing for. Chet's comment that Wolfire's main point is wrong today clearly suggests that it was correct at some point in the past. I admit I don't quite understand how it's possible for such terms to still apply today, given that Steam games are almost always cheaper to find on a ton of other stores even day one, but maybe there are terms and conditions to it that we are not aware of. We'll see, all will be revealed by the almighty publicly shared box of trial documents.

 

[Kvik]

 

[Kyougar]

I'm sorry but this usage of the "soft power" rhetoric sounds a little insane to me. Is he truly meaning that some devs won't dare sell a game for less than they are on Steam despite nothing in their contract and agreements stipulating to the contrary? As in, distributing it themselves or using some other platform like GoG?

It seems more far-stretched than an Incredibles family member to me, honestly. You don't run businesses according to rumors and there are enough bucks in this industry that someone has checked the wording to make sure of that.

Especially when steam didn't retaliate against the (small) devs who made an EGS deal

 

[toxicitizen]

Someone please tell Capcom about the 'SortAs' setting.

If Ubisoft could figure it out with the AC games, I'm sure they can too. Of course, this wouldn't be a problem if they had actually had the numeral in the title like 7 did instead of just having it be highlighted in the logo...

 

[madjoki]

Someone please tell Capcom about the 'SortAs' setting.

If Ubisoft could figure it out with the AC games, I'm sure they can too. Of course, this wouldn't be a problem if they had actually had the numeral in the title like 7 did instead of just having it be highlighted in the logo...

Fairly sure it's something only Valve can do.
And who ever did it originally, probably forgot about it, as it's not really been used recently at all.

 

[FunnyJay]

I finished the 72 Hour Mode of Dead Rising Remastered last night!
Dead Rising was the first ever game I bought for my X360 back in 2006, and I never finished it back in the day, so it felt good to actually complete it finally.
Well, almost, since I unlocked Overtime mode, so I still have that left.

Over the years since the latest time I played Dead Rising 1, I have tried both Dead Rising 2 and Dead Rising 3, and it's fun to see the small differences in the first game.
It has a certain "feel" that belongs in the early 360 generation. Slightly clunky feel at times, weird controls (first person camera is control with the left stick while third person over the shoulder aim is controlled with the right stick), menus that don't feel like the current design trend language (lots of wasted space for example).

I also remember it being quite difficult back in the day, but I didn't feel that it was too difficult any longer. The survivor AI is really bad and the time limit can be a bit unforgiving at times, but as long as your willing to sacrifice survivors and be sure to be on time for the main scoops, it's not unmanageable.
Also, I restarted 2 times to take advantage of the leveling system.

I also think my difficulty at the time perhaps had to do with unfamiliarity with the then "new" 360 controller, a controller that I have since used continuously for the last 15 years.

So I will continue with Dead Rising 1, and then move on for a proper playthrough of Dead Rising 2!

 

[toxicitizen]

Fairly sure it's something only Valve can do.
And who ever did it originally, probably forgot about it, as it's not really been used recently at all.

Oh, really? I assumed it was something devs could do. And yeah, even the AC games stopped doing it at some point. It's really annoying to me. I really wish there was an option for it on the user side.

 

[Alextended]

Chet's comment that Wolfire's main point is wrong today clearly suggests that it was correct at some point in the past.

No, he just speaks for what he knows for sure, the now, never even hints it was for sure true before, just that he's not gonna vouch for whatever may have been different a decade ago. Steam has undergone huge changes and was once a completely closed off platform after all, I doubt anyone can recall all the terms.

Impromptugames guy was being a jackass and trying to make him as some evil person just because he said he doubts anyone at Valve knows of the game.

 

[ZKenir]

 

[Wok]

I can read it now! The second letter was indeed a W. John Wick!

Full picture:

 

[Alexandros]

No, he just speaks for what he knows for sure, the now, never even hints it was for sure true before, just that he's not gonna vouch for whatever may have been different a decade ago. Steam has undergone huge changes and was once a completely closed off platform after all, I doubt anyone can recall all the terms.

That makes sense, thanks. A developer posted an image from the Steam key generation system:

I don't know, this doesn't seem problematic to me. It seems like a way to avoid abuse of the free key generation system. I asked the developer this:

Joe, is it possible that the clause is meant to prevent cases of extreme abuse of free key generation? I checked prices for Resident Evil Village, it's priced at 60€ on Steam while Green Man Gaming sells it for 51€.

Since we can all agree that Steam doesn't seem to be enforcing any sort of price parity clause today and based on the wording of the clauses above, my first thought is that Valve wants to avoid situations where someone sells the game on Steam for 60€, generates tons of free keys and sells them everywhere else for a much lower permanent price, like 30 €. Those clauses don't seem to preclude selling a game cheaper outside Steam within a margin that would account for different store commissions.

 

[Alextended]

It's pretty clear it's about the Steam keys alone and the blog post/lawsuit itself has that separately as Chet replied to him. And yes those terms are all perfectly valid even if enforced. The alternative is free reign to undercut Steam while using all its services for free. You could basically make EGS2, only sell Steam keys, at first you'd be unknown, but eventually you'd be just as known as Steam for offering everything on Steam 10%+ cheaper, while still giving pubs a bigger cut and making a nice sum yourself as you have next to no overhead beyond the trasnaction processing, all the rest fall on Steam which should then according to these folks apparently be obliged to keep allowing competitors to force it into seppuku. So far they don't enforce it but it'd be fine if they do. And if they do I'm sure they won't start over pennies from some game nobody knows exists (and I say that as an ex-fan, I Steam reviewed it in 2017 as having merits but a huge disappointment overall). Or like everyone else they could simply not offer free key generation, then nobody can blame them about how they handle that, right?

 

[curi0usBystander]

I can read it now! The second letter was indeed a W. John Wick!

Guess the logo matches

Logo

 

[Mor]

I can read it now! The second letter was indeed a W. John Wick!

Full picture:

I THINK the second one is John Wick Hex, here's the logo.

Why black if John Wick Hex's logo is transparent, well, as the letters have no effect they let the black background as contrast.

 

[Wok]

This is new info, I think.

 

[madjoki]

This is new info, I think.

which file?

 

[Alexandros]

This is new info, I think.

Interesting. What document is this from?

 

[Mor]

This is new info, I think.

So far I can say that Ooblets and Old World (10 crowns) keep confirming Steam and "other platforms" today in their official channels, so this segment is weird.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

Maybe that was the initial plans, but it was re-negotiated later on?

 

[Mor]

Maybe that was the initial plans, but it was re-negotiated later on?

That's my guess but who knows hehe

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

FIFA 21 is now part of the EA Play subscription. I don't remember them ever announcing a date.

 

[Alexandros]

Maybe that was the initial plans, but it was re-negotiated later on?

It's possible that they signed a lifetime exclusivity deal with a lifetime minimum guarantee recoup so they were stuck on EGS making almost zero money and tried to get out of that deal. An incredibly shitty situation to be in but I would be lying if I said that the predicament of this studio in particular isn't giving me some amount of schadenfreude.

 

[madjoki]

Free games continuing until 2024 ???

 

[curi0usBystander]

Free games continuing until 2024 ???

I remember people saying that since people (mostly young kids now) will game so many free games in their account they'll feel an attachment and once they have money they will start purchasing.
But if they give games for the next 3-4 years there is a possiblity that they'll have so many free games for a lifetime and never see why they should pay for a game.

 

[Wok]

The games given away in 2019 which have been most played (in terms of average play time) by freeloaders are:

1. Slime Rancher (444 min)
2. For Honor (411 min)
3. Batman Arkham Knight (310 min)
4. Enter the Gungeon (305 min)
5. Batman Arkham City (250 min)
6. Mutant Year Zero (250 min)

which file?

DX-4361.

Maybe that was the initial plans, but it was re-negotiated later on?

Possible. All these pieces of info are about year 2019.

 

[fantomena]

This is new info, I think.

Maybe they should remove Ooblets Steam page then.

 

[Wok]

Emails can be funny.

---

Patting the boss in the back. :lul:

---

Helping a reporter spin the story the right way: "if they want help writing a story about how we do this right and others do it wrong"

[...]

[...]

[...]

[...]

 

[fantomena]

CapCom making loads of money on Steam with Village. The top 3 are all different packages of Village.

 

[madjoki]

CapCom making loads of money on Steam with Village. The top 3 are all different packages of Village.

But but 30%...

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

Someone messed up the banner image:

 

[fantomena]

Im both happy and suprised that Village is only 28.1 gb on PC. I feel like Im used to 50gb+ games when it comes to triple a titles.

 

[beep boop]

I remember people saying that since people (mostly young kids now) will game so many free games in their account they'll feel an attachment and once they have money they will start purchasing.
But if they give games for the next 3-4 years there is a possiblity that they'll have so many free games for a lifetime and never see why they should pay for a game.

No, Epic is bringing value back to games you see…

 

[prudis]

Impromptugames guy was being a jackass and trying to make him as some evil person just because he said he doubts anyone at Valve knows of the game.

reading the account , the Impromptu seems to be part of some project that got Epic Mega Grant ... so that kida explains a lot

 

[Dragon1893]

Having a lot of unforeseen expenses this month, I guess that makes the choice of which game to buy this month a lot easier, the answer is none.